ST1300 ABS vs. ST1100 ABS... what say you?

So, for those that have ridden both an ST1300 and ST1100, both with ABS, how does the ST11 ABS compare to the ST13 ABS in overall braking performance? My only reference point is my (now wrecked) '01 ST11 non-ABS compared to two ST13s with ABS. Of course it was no contest... both 13s were far superior.

FWIW, I'm trying to decide on a bike to replace my ST11 and braking performance is at the top of the list of requirements. In fact, before I had my wreck, I was seriously considering changing bikes just to get better braking. Now, after the wreck, it's a priority. Thanks for the input.

Having ridden both the ST1300 and the ST1100 ABS models, I really didn't find that much difference from the ST1300 ABS compared to the ST1100 ABSII. Now compared to the standard ST1100, yes a big difference (and that's true of the ST1100 standard compared to the ST1100 ABSII). I've got 16,000+ miles on ST1300s, 150,000+ miles on ST1100 ABSIIs on all kinds of roads and riding situations. Now, I'm not talking about 'ABS kicking in' comparison (this very seldom occurs), but just pure stopping power.

The 1100 ABSII is functionally identical to the 1300 ABS, same size brakes 'n pads. I'm sure there are differences in the technical piece parts but operationally no diff. Theoretically, the longer wheel base on the 1100 would add stability in a real ABS braking situation.

For my money, the ABSII 1100 is the best among all 4 iterations (with and without ABS, 1100 and 1300.)

Uncle Phil said:

Now, I'm not talking about 'ABS kicking in' comparison (this very seldom occurs), but just pure stopping power.

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Thanks for your input Phil & George... was hoping you guys would jump into this thread. And yes, that's what I'm interested in... how do they compare under 'normal' braking conditions, i.e. without ABS activating.

paulcb said:

So, for those that have ridden both an ST1300 and ST1100, both with ABS, how does the ST11 ABS compare to the ST13 ABS in overall braking performance? My only reference point is my (now wrecked) '01 ST11 non-ABS compared to two ST13s with ABS. Of course it was no contest... both 13s were far superior.

FWIW, I'm trying to decide on a bike to replace my ST11 and braking performance is at the top of the list of requirements. In fact, before I had my wreck, I was seriously considering changing bikes just to get better braking. Now, after the wreck, it's a priority. Thanks for the input.

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I put about 100k miles on my 1995 ST1100 ABS/TCS before selling it. I can think of about four times where it actually kicked in and possibly saved me from crashing. They were "adequate" compared to later models, both Honda and other brands. The ABS brakes on '96 and later ST1100s are linked, and are just plain better. The ABS brakes on my ST1300 are head and shoulders superior to those that were on my old '95, which is still on the road and purring right along with about 160k on it. The Brembo ABS brakes on my Ducati are even more superior, however we are talking nine years newer and a completely different ride and machine.

jmcarruth said:

I put about 100k miles on my 1995 ST1100 ABS/TCS before selling it. I can think of about four times where it actually kicked in and possibly saved me from crashing. They were "adequate" compared to later models, both Honda and other brands. The ABS brakes on '96 and later ST1100s are linked, and are just plain better. The ABS brakes on my ST1300 are head and shoulders superior to those that were on my old '95, which is still on the road and purring right along with about 160k on it. The Brembo ABS brakes on my Ducati are even more superior, however we are talking nine years newer and a completely different ride and machine.

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Thanks for the input John. If I read between the lines, are you saying that the ST11 ABSII is equivalent to the ST1300 ABS?

Also, is the ST11 ABSII as trouble free as the ST13 ABS?

paulcb said:

Also, is the ST11 ABSII as trouble free as the ST13 ABS?

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That was my first thought on the topic, older bikes are going to be more likely to encounter failures that need (expensive) replacement parts. But now that I think of it, I seem to recall seeing more ST13 ABS threads than ST11, but maybe its because more ST13s have ABS? Dunno.

paulcb said:

Also, is the ST11 ABSII as trouble free as the ST13 ABS?

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I'll add this... for those that have an ST11 ABSII and/or an ST13 ABS, what (if any) ABS system issues have you had?

Hi Paul: I've been following your thread and your journey back from the mishap with your ST1100. Please permit me to say that while I have never ridden an ST1100 and only have limited experience with the ST1300 (I just got mine in October 2015), I do know a fair bit about ABS and TCS technologies in general. I think that the most important things to keep in mind about antilock brake systems (and the Honda combined or linked brake systems and all traction control systems for that matter) are these:

1) ANY brake or traction control system should really be thought of as a friction management system. If there is NO friction (like on ice or wet leaves or if you are hydroplaning) - you will get nothing from any brake system. ABS, CBS and TCS can assist in managing the available friction as effectively as possible to keep the bike stable and bring you to a halt safely.

2) People who say they can do better than anti-lock brakes on the road are (sorry folks) simply kidding themselves - and numerous tests confirm that fact. Depending on the design of the system, ABS / TCS technology can examine vehicle conditions and cycle dozens, hundreds or more times per second - and nobody's hands could possibly move that fast. Watch the on-line videos and see for yourself. I'm sure there are situations on race tracks where a specific rider on a specific bike could do better - but on the road, nope.

3) ABS and TCS etc. etc. are driver / rider aids that will actuate when needed and can save your bacon - but you will never be able to anticipate exactly when that might occur because under normal motorcycle operation, they are inactive. CBS is different - it is there all the time on our ST bikes and it helps to prevent the types of fall-down accidents that happen when people nail just one of the pedal or the handle too hard. Overall, these systems will just wait quietly, just over the horizon, and (hopefully) they will swoop in to help when needed. If you're really lucky, you will never actually need or use these technologies at all - but I, for one, am damned glad I have them and would never buy another bike without them.

So, the basic point is that I would certainly advise you to go for an ABS bike and the more modern and advanced the system, the better. After that, ride with due care for conditions and maybe some day, you'll need that technology, and it will be there to help.

Cheers and best wishes for a continued recovery.

Pete

Thanks for those thoughts Pete... agree with most (all) of them. No doubt, my next bike will have ABS for sure. Wanted an ABS bike before the wreck and the wreck has just accelerated the purchase!

George said:

The 1100 ABSII is functionally identical to the 1300 ABS, same size brakes 'n pads. I'm sure there are differences in the technical piece parts but operationally no diff. Theoretically, the longer wheel base on the 1100 would add stability in a real ABS braking situation.

For my money, the ABSII 1100 is the best among all 4 iterations (with and without ABS, 1100 and 1300.)

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+1000 there!

Paul - Two ST1100 ABSII models - one with 102,000+miles (2002) and no major issues with the ABSII (except an occasional blinking light that I just have to cut the bike off and back on), and one with 77,000+ miles (1997) and no issues at all. Just a note - I have always used Honda stock pads and am still on the original discs, FWIW.

paulcb said:

Thanks for the input John. If I read between the lines, are you saying that the ST11 ABSII is equivalent to the ST1300 ABS?

Also, is the ST11 ABSII as trouble free as the ST13 ABS?

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I have never owned a '96 or later ST1100 ABS model, so all I know is what I have read, which is these brakes are excellent. I can attest to the quality of the linked ABS brakes on my 2003 ST1300 A and can tell you that they are superior to the non-linked ABS brakes that were on my '95 ST1100. My 2002 VFR 800 A2 had what appeared to be the same brakes as the ST1300, also excellent.

Have not ridden an ST1100 ABS II, but compared to my '93 ABS I (non-linked and two piston calipers) my ST1300 ABS is far superior. Stopping distances were similar when tested against the MCN radar gun from 60 -> 0 but the 1300 was less fiddly and more composed. The ABS I 1100 required more attention to make sure both brakes were properly applied. You would think it wouldn't matter - just mash them both, but I found the 13 easier to stop short than the 11.

Jeff - Didn't the ABSI have the same pads as the standard - with just the ABS system added? Just curious since I've never owned one of them.

Paul, are you limiting yourself to Honda?

I had a '98 ST11 ABSII and have a '04 ST13 ABS. Of the two, I feel the ST13 is better in braking--that is of course without having done a scientific test. But to be sure, the ST11 was still very good at quickly getting stopped.

I recall my ST11 having more front end dive than does my ST13... that can factor into stopping distance in rough conditions.

I don't know the ABS system's pulse rate specs, but my recall is that the ST11 was a bit slower and a bit more noticeably than does the ST13. Also, in normal braking, my ST13 provides better feedback than my ST11 did--my ST11 was noticeably more vague and squishy in comparison (even as delivered, new)--bleeding never changed that feeling.

While you didn't ask... There's also a subtle difference to me in their long-distance legs. My stock ST11 seemed more at ease while eating up the miles and fit me slightly better ergonomically than does my tailored ST13 (which has seat and handlebar adjustments trying to improve ergonomics). But to be fair, I'm older and have lost some muscle tone since then, so it may be that I'd say the same thing about the ST11 ergonomics if I had one today.

I don't think you'll do wrong with either the ABS versions of the ST11 or ST13 (or FJR or RT or ...)

Uncle Phil said:

Jeff - Didn't the ABSI have the same pads as the standard - with just the ABS system added? Just curious since I've never owned one of them.

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Yes, same pads and calipers as far as I could tell. Quite "wooden" compared to the 13's brakes.


-Jeff

wjbertrand said:

Yes, same pads and calipers as far as I could tell. Quite "wooden" compared to the 13's brakes. -Jeff

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Jeff - Thanks. That's what I thought. There is quite a bit of difference between the pads on the ABSII and the standard/ABSI. A lot more aggressive surface and contact area on the ABSII pads which would explain (in my simple mind) why the stopping is much better.

Uncle Phil - still on the original rotors! That is remarkable. Any idea how many pad changes you've done? My 2007 ST1300 (new to me a month ago) has about 42000 km (about 25,000 miles) and I'm wondering when I might expect to get into all those calipers.

On my 02 ABSII, about 10-15,000 miles per set. So about 6-7 sets on it.