ST1300 ABS vs. ST1100 ABS... what say you?

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Uncle Phil - still on the original rotors! That is remarkable. Any idea how many pad changes you've done? My 2007 ST1300 (new to me a month ago) has about 42000 km (about 25,000 miles) and I'm wondering when I might expect to get into all those calipers.
brakes are similar to tires, the kind of riding you do affects how long they last. If you do primarily long touring rides with 500+ mile days, you're probably doing less braking per mile than someone who uses their bike for city commuting. I think in general the pads last about 30k miles, so you're getting pretty close to replacement interval on yours. You should be able to see the remaining pad thickness by looking, without removing anything.
 
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These are minor point. I have a non abs o4 ST1300. It brakes just as good as an ABS. If your abs kicks in often, then your riding and braking habits need to change.
 
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paulcb

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These are minor point. I have a non abs o4 ST1300. It brakes just as good as an ABS. If your abs kicks in often, then your riding and braking habits need to change.
I think ABS is a MAJOR point and I know that the same rider on the same bike in the same conditions can stop much sooner with ABS... there's no question about that, especially in a panic situation. Why do you think airlines have been using them for 50 years? Sometimes, you only need a few extra feet plus the additional straight-line stability is there with ABS. I don't expect it to kick in often, I just want it to kick in when I need it, which may only be once!
 
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I think ABS is a MAJOR point and I know that the same rider on the same bike in the same conditions can stop much sooner with ABS... there's no question about that, especially in a panic situation. Why do you think airlines have been using them for 50 years? Sometimes, you only need a few extra feet plus the additional straight-line stability is there with ABS. I don't expect it to kick in often, I just want it to kick in when I need it, which may only be once!
I can see your point.
 

Uncle Phil

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Probably on the ST1300 as was the case in the ST1100 standard and ABSI - the calipers and brake pad sizes are pretty much the same. On the ST1100 ABSII, however, they were much improved so it's not really the 'ABS' in this case as much as the new designed of the calipers. But then, YEMV ... ;-)
 

wjbertrand

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These are minor point. I have a non abs o4 ST1300. It brakes just as good as an ABS. If your abs kicks in often, then your riding and braking habits need to change.
Agree if you are engaging ABS on a regular basis in normal riding, but that's not what ABS is really for. The value of ABS is in preventing a fall in a panic situation, there are darn few rider that are calm enough to never over-react at an unexpected event, no matter how much training. The other big advantage is the adaptability of ABS to changing surface conditions. The streets are littered with debris, a patch work of surface types, or can be at any stage of wetness. One may encounter two or more of these conditions in a single stop. In SoCal we are in a particularly tricky time of year when there as been no significant rain for months and in this case years. The first light rains/ drizzles of the season are especially treacherous. That light drizzle will wet the roads but there's not much run off so an extremely slick emulsion will form. I've had two instances of how slippery that can be.

First time was slowing down to a stop light, mostly just gentle coasting where you only really apply the brakes lightly at the very end just to make a complete stop. I was really surprised to see my front ABS activated on my '93 (obvious pulsations in the lever). I stopped a little ways into the cross walk and when I tried to leave at the green light my TCS lamp was winking at me about half way across the intersection. Probably would have gone down and been left wondering "Whisky Tango Foxtrot" without the ABS.

The second time was in my old Toyota pick up in an early season light rain. Managed to stop with no drama at the end of an off ramp. When the light turned green, I simply could not move forward. The open differential was just letting one of the rear wheels spin - no traction at all. I actually missed the light! I ended up letting the truck roll backward down the ramp a car length or so hoping to find more traction and that worked at the next cycle. Had I been on a bike I would have been glad to have ABS that day too.
 

BakerBoy

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Great examples WJB.

@etalors: You are correct; riding and braking habits shouldn't require ABS. However, that's not the reason I have ABS and will not own another bike without ABS. One of my pucker moments was an unexpected breaking loose of the rear tire (a ME880, hated it!) on my '04 ST as I was approaching a switchback coming downhill over Berthoud pass on a cold rainy day. I was being quite respectful of the conditions and the back end broke free and the bike started a 'power slide' just as I was slowing to enter the next switchback--ABS caught it and avoided a messy situation. Another time I was on my non-ABS VStrom (no ABS, no linked brakes) on a dry day in winter, slowing and braking for an upcoming blind right hander with a nasty guard rail to keep things from going over the steep edge. The next thing I realize, my dirt biking reflexes suddenly kick in as the rear tire breaks loose while braking, and I'm quickly seeing the guard rail approach--clearly something greatly reduced traction beyond anything I could see or anticipate from the road surface. I still don't know how I had the wherewithal to back off braking the front wheel too (as it fortunately hadn't broken free), and I changed to the inside wheel track and went through the corner much hotter and at greater lean than I ever want to experience again. Pure luck. In such instances, I want more than pure luck.

I often use versions the following few points when the ABS debate arises:
ABS was added to airplanes to remove the elements of pilot error or poor skill. Lives and airplanes are costly, and ABS reduces that cost.

ABS was removed from F1 cars to add the elements of pilot error and differentiate pilot's skills. This was for the enjoyment of the spectators and to give advantage to the most capable pilots given that there is more pilot skill required when ABS is removed.

Pilots of airlines and F1 cars are highly trained. In comparison, most of us motorcycle pilots are not as prepared.
But of course, each makes his/her own decision. So I'm just relaying my reasons/rationale.
:)
 
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paulcb

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John, thank you for that fine write-up... it's very helpful. Agree on the ST11 non-ABS brakes... IMO, their just adequate whereas the ST13's are great.

New front calipers on 2009... I didn't think there were any significant changes after 2008? What are the differences in the front caliper between 2009 and prior to 2009?

Thanks again for your input.

-Paul
 
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paulcb

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Yeah, that caliper/pad pin is recessed in the ST11 as well and has a slotted set screw on top if it. That set screw strips easily... once I got it out, I never put it back in, just filled the void with some grease to keep road grime out

Thanks again John, appreciate the detail.
 

Uncle Phil

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Yeah, that caliper/pad pin is recessed in the ST11 as well and has a slotted set screw on top if it. That set screw strips easily... once I got it out, I never put it back in, just filled the void with some grease to keep road grime out

Thanks again John, appreciate the detail.
Paul - I've ordered the ST1300 'caps' to replace my slotted screws. I'll let you know how it works out. Somewhere out there is a version of the slotted screw that has a hex socket head instead of the slot. But I have yet to put my hands on the part number. It may not be a Honda part but the length and threads work.
 

Uncle Phil

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John - What I was talking about was actually a hex 'screw' that replaced the slotted screw - same size and length except it had a hex head instead of the slot. I could kick myself for not getting the part number from the feller that found it. :doh1: I've order some plastic caps that are supposed to plug the hole but just haven't installed them yet.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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The plastic plugs/caps/covers for the ST1300 work fine in standard ST1100 calipers.

Edit: I've never had a problem getting my slotted brake pad bolt caps off as many others have reported over the years (always use anti-seize on their threads). The pad pins on the other hand... have had two frozen. I consider the pad pins a service item to be replaced at interval.

John
 
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