Zumo 590 and Basecamp - Some Navigation Issues Solved. (Maybe)

Reginald

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Some good information here.

A couple of points though.
There are user inserted waypoints, use them for parts of the route you want to be on. I've had to place them close to each other on several highways to insure the route remains on the highway I want to travel. The Natchez Trace and WY 14A through the Bighorns come to mind. No matter how I set the options, Basecamp wanted to detour me somewhere else so I forced it with waypoints.
Options, such as avoid interstates and unpaved roads, should be set the same on the GPS and Basecamp if possible. Sometimes you need the interstate to make time, just make sure you have some way points and don't allow recalculation, but you can still get some rerouting off onto frontage roads. If you can remember the setting such as Driving or Motorcycle when you made the map, you can change to it on the GPS for that route and avoid the problem. Sometimes I forget to change the GPS and the GPS wants me to ride along the frontage roads.
When riding with someone who has a different Garmin, make sure the options are the same or you'll get different routes. Especially when one of the devices has the recalculation turned on. This will be real confusing for both riders when one GPS deviates. I know this from personal experience while riding with the wife and we rode 50 miles out of the way on a very hot 104 F day. She was not happy, although she did laugh about it later when I found the problem and reset the Garmin's.
Recalculation on the GPS seems to be my biggest issue. I just turn recalculation off.
 

Reginald

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I think you may be referring to the things that Basecamp refers to as Shaping Points.
I'm writing about waypoints here. In basecamp on the tool bar there is a flag icon that's a user inserted waypoint tool (says it in the little help window when you mouse over it). You can change it's symbol to many different icons on the map when you open it up on the map. You can also relabel it and write in comments in the "Notes" tab.

Also, I've discovered with both my Zumo 550 and my wife's Zumo 660 that routing activities (driving or motorcycle) can change a route on the GPS from BaseCamp's even with recalculation turned off. The only route preferences that don't change are when basecamp custom route options are used. You'll find this option under the "Route Options" tab when you open the route.
 

Reginald

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So does that suggest that because you have (say) motorcycle set on Basecamp, and the satnav has its own settings for 'motorcycle', which are maybe different, the route changes ? I don't use the custom route options, but instead I have customised the motorcycle profile in route options from the one that was set up initially. I'll keep an eye on that, but so far nothing has been recalculated, unless I have forced it to to see what happens.
What I didn't communicate well here is when you have Basecamp set on Driving (which allows easier interstate routing) and the GPS is set on motorcycle. The GPS will try to run me off the interstate or main highway. Or Basecamp is set on motorcycle and the GPS is set on driving. In this case the GPS keeps trying to route me to much longer routes on back roads rather than the highway I've selected. I've started to use the custom setting in Basecamp for mixed interstate and motorcycle routes. This option has solved my re-routing problems.

I've had several weeks of routes sets for a trip, one for each day. Sometimes I don't remember the settings I used in Basecamp and end up with routes I didn't plan on. Once I didn't load the correct map in the Zumo 550 and when I rode off the loaded North American maps, the route showed up running parallel the roads by some yards, that was a surprise. When I rode off the maps I also lost the ability to go to addresses with the GPS. The new Garmin I bought will fix this because it can hold all the North American maps, USA and Canada.
 

Reginald

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I'm not trying to prove anyone right or wrong here.
There's still a lot I can learn about BaseCamp and the GPS. I've merely pointed out my experiences. I'm sure someone who delves into it can arrive at better conclusions and uses. I've read the New England Rider's site and learned some there.
 
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I read bits of these posts (most are way over my head). So far I have made very little progress in basecamp. Is there hope? Is there an alternative? So far, I only use my Garmin to make sure I can end up eventually at (for example) ... '1046 Cowan Park Drive R.R.#2 Utterson Ontario' and use my God-given male intuition to choose the path to get there. Just don't want to keep investing added hours into basecamp and find out I would have used the time better on an alternative.
Thanks,
Dennis
 

Critters

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Is there a setting somewhere on Basecamp which will allow me to get the quickest route from A - B or do I just change the vehicle type to get this. Following this thread being posted I am trying to plan a route for my 390 but when I do it using the motorcycle setting about 70% of the calculated route is fine but there is always a weird loop which seems pointless, when I try drag the route to the road I want it does not like it and will then draw a straight line (like a flight route) to my changed point.

I am exasperated with it already.
 
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Reginald

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but there is always a weird loop which seems pointless, when I try drag the route to the road I want it does not like it and will then draw a straight line (like a flight route) to my changed point.
Several things you can try.
1) When you have a route in mind, force it by inserting waypoints. BaseCamp's and the GPS will have programming in it that won't necessarily match what you have in mind.
2) The Driving activity with either the "fastest time" or "shorter distance" option selected will give a more direct route. There are differences in route selections between the fastest time and shorter distance options.
3) Make sure avoidance options aren't selected that exclude the section you want in your route.
4) To get rid of that straight line use recalculate route. Problem here is I've found my basecamp always goes back to it's programming and not my route ideas.
 

Critters

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Several things you can try.
1) When you have a route in mind, force it by inserting waypoints. BaseCamp's and the GPS will have programming in it that won't necessarily match what you have in mind.
2) The Driving activity with either the "fastest time" or "shorter distance" option selected will give a more direct route. There are differences in route selections between the fastest time and shorter distance options.
3) Make sure avoidance options aren't selected that exclude the section you want in your route.
4) To get rid of that straight line use recalculate route. Problem here is I've found my basecamp always goes back to it's programming and not my route ideas.

I have gone through all the settings and the settings for motorcycling are set to fastest time and all the avoidances are unchecked and despite dragging the route in an attempt to get it to go where I want it either causes loops or the straight "flight line" I am describing. When I get the straight line and press recalculate it does not make a difference.

If I use the "truck" option the route works fine and it goes where I expected it to go.

I have emailed my points A to B directly to jfheath last night along with the screenshots as the file size allowed to be uploaded on here is too restricting and he could not get it to do what it did with me. One thing he did notice that when I plan points A to B two random road numbers appear.

Late last night I tried it again and it worked and I did not change any of my previous settings, one thing I did not mention is that when I am trying to calculate my route I have my Garmin plugged into my laptop to get the detailed maps I needed.

I will try something local to me before I go to Europe, the garmin Tutorial video is two minutes long, I have been sitting trying to get it to work for hours.!!!
 

Reginald

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I have gone through all the settings and the settings for motorcycling are set to fastest time and all the avoidances are unchecked and despite dragging the route in an attempt to get it to go where I want it either causes loops or the straight "flight line" I am describing. When I get the straight line and press recalculate it does not make a difference.
I've had two highway in the states that did this to me and I had to force it by plotting several close together waypoints. They were the Natchez Trace and WY 14a across the Big Horn Mountains. I'm sure there are many more all over the world that do this. I can't explain it but just work around the fault.

If I use the "truck" option the route works fine and it goes where I expected it to go.
I had to do this in Kansas once to force the Garmin to take direct routes on some gravel/dirt roads to see some gypsum formations just off HWY 83. The programming in the activities driving and motorcycle just got confused. Frustrating. Had to use waypoints at every intersection and the destination.

I have emailed my points A to B directly to jfheath last night along with the screenshots as the file size allowed to be uploaded on here is too restricting and he could not get it to do what it did with me. One thing he did notice that when I plan points A to B two random road numbers appear.
Never experienced this. Can't guess why this is happening.

Late last night I tried it again and it worked and I did not change any of my previous settings, one thing I did not mention is that when I am trying to calculate my route I have my Garmin plugged into my laptop to get the detailed maps I needed.
You need to down load the same map you use in the GPS to BaseCamp. I've experienced some minor issues when they were different. My Garmin would recalculate the route no matter what I did in BaseCamp.

I will try something local to me before I go to Europe, the garmin Tutorial video is two minutes long, I have been sitting trying to get it to work for hours.!!!
I've had my Garmin Zumo 550 GPS for 8 1/2 years and BaseCamp for what seems like 4 years. I've worked with my wife's 660 and BaseCamp for three years. Supposedly the Zumo 550 is not compatible with BaseCamp, but I've gotten it to work for me by keeping the maps sync'd and judicious use of waypoints. It's always gotten me to my destination even if it took me on a 50 mile detour once. And it's always gotten me home. I'd say you might want to practice on some on 80 km routes or about an hour ride. Go to some dives you always wanted to eat at. Plan one way as driving and the other as motorcycle. Play with some options on later trips. Take notes on what you chose and make sure to set the GPS to the same, see what happens. Don't have a bad experience on a long trip. Short trips in the country side are almost never bad.

Garmin Express has an option to download maps for both the GPS and BaseCamp at the same time or near to it. I can't remember off the top of my head but I do remember I thought the interface was a little kludge. I suggest this might help.

I'm still learning the tools.
 
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I have gone through all the settings and the settings for motorcycling are set to fastest time and all the avoidances are unchecked and despite dragging the route in an attempt to get it to go where I want it either causes loops or the straight "flight line" I am describing. When I get the straight line and press recalculate it does not make a difference.
One additional tip.
If you have a large collection of previous routes or route segments you plan to ride in the future be careful when changing the parameters for profiles. Any change to the 'Motorcycle' profile will effect every route you have stored in Basecamp which uses that profile. I have 16 years worth of routes stores in my Basecamp database. Folders for the years, with sub-folders for various trips. I find it useful to look back at previous trips. I've learned the hard way that changing profiles causes all of your stored routes to recalculate and change.
 

Reginald

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I find it useful to look back at previous trips. I've learned the hard way that changing profiles causes all of your stored routes to recalculate and change.
Very true. However, if you change the profile for activities, BaseCamp will ask if you want to apply it to all routes using that activity or the current route. BaseCamp is again is kludge here and asks in a way that's confusing. Several times I didn't pay close attention and ended up recalculating all my routes. Selecting "No" will retain the route settings but change the all Activities to Custom. It's one reason I've started using the Custom Activity more, BaseCamp messes with Custom less. It also means I have to use more waypoints. I really recommend trying the Custom activity and see how it works for you.
 
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Lots of additional points is better should the route be recalculated by the zumo. The route is only recalculated between the key points - whether they are waypoints, shaping points, alerting points or non alerting points. On the 590 i am beginning to use non- alerting points mostly, as they do not insist that you visit them in the same way. On the 660 it doesnt matter.
Since a Basecamp update about 2 years ago my 660 has started a habit of spontaneously, randomly recalculating routes in progress even though I have it set not to do so. Since I don't know what the 660 is going to come up with during the recalc I typically reload the route in flight. Sometimes this will happen once per route, sometimes a half dozen times per day. I brought this up on the Zumo forum and got into a long discussion about it with someone from Garmin. In the end he changed tact and told be to go back to using Mapsource as the 660 is no longer compatible with Basecamp!?! Previous to that Garmin was saying we all had to give up Mapsource and learn Basecamp since Mapsource is no longer in development. I invested a LOT of time migrating everything into Basecamp. For the most part I'm happy with that direction. It is kind of nice to be able to superimpose previous routes while building a future trip. You end up having to invest a lot of time to insure you get the route you want, and you have to put up with random recalcs, but I feel there are enough benefits to go with Basecamp. I just get the feeling Garmin isn't coordinating the development of their hardware and software as well as they used too....
 
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Very true. However, if you change the profile for activities, BaseCamp will ask if you want to apply it to all routes using that activity or the current route. BaseCamp is again is kludge here and asks in a way that's confusing. Several times I didn't pay close attention and ended up recalculating all my routes. Selecting "No" will retain the route settings but change the all Activities to Custom. It's one reason I've started using the Custom Activity more, BaseCamp messes with Custom less. It also means I have to use more waypoints. I really recommend trying the Custom activity and see how it works for you.
I don't want to change my Motorcycle profile to something else, I just want to use it for new trips, but retain the previous routes as they were. I guess changing the previous routes to profile 'custom' would retain those routes as they were calculated at the time they were created??

Rather than going through each one, one by one, I could change the motorcycle profile, select 'no', and let Basecamp change all of the previous routes to custom. Then I could revert the motorcycle profile to the original settings.....
 

Critters

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Well I downloaded the full basecamp maps to my laptop just in case the settings between my 390 and laptop were conflicting and tried again the route I emailed to jfheath and it again did the Westerly loop north of Hamburg (with the addition of these two roads which I did not add).

At the moment I am going to add the stops direct to my 390 and let it find the route when I need it on the day, as I am not having a computer programme which seems to have issues throw a wobbly putting me miles off route adding extra distance to my trip.

I have turned to alcohol.
 

Reginald

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I guess changing the previous routes to profile 'custom' would retain those routes as they were calculated at the time they were created??
That's what BaseCamp will do. It changes the activity to custom keeping the original settings of the route. There's an option under custom for selecting motorcycle, car, truck, ect.

I've seen Garmin forums that discuss how the Zumo 550 and 660 are not compatible with BaseCamp. But I've not experienced problems between them when my maps are the same on both and my activities and options are the same. There seems to be a few highways that the mapping software doesn't like and will try to route me around in long detours. I work around this by plotting waypoints along the route and force the route I want.

The only problems I've experience were created by me when activities and options were different between basecamp and the GPS or I missed placing a waypoint at a location I wanted to ride through.

One problem I've seen is highway name concurrencies where a town street will take precedence over a hwy number or two highway numbers are on the same road, which is confusing sometimes. Wish they'd keep the hwy number through towns/cities. Believe it or not this is also a problem for state departments of transportation.

I really don't need BaseCamp or the GPS selecting a lot of routes for me. I only use the shortest rout option when I'm trying to get out of Texas in the summer.
 

Reginald

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So do the forums say which Garmin units are compatible with Basecamp?
They did and listed just about every Zumo. Hard to believe the current Zumo's aren't compatible with BaseCamp. Since I don't have issues other than housekeeping between BaseCamp and GPS units, I don't believe what they're saying.

It wouldn't necessarily be accurate if it did , especially given the Garmin person's comment. The problem is that the software is evolving and people's experiences are based on what they believe at the time. The terminology is also very dynamic, even within Garmin. Look at their use of the termi 'Via Point' in the current zumo software for the 590 and the current basecamp software. They contradict each other. Its only a small point, but confusing when a forum post assumes one definition, and the reader assumes the other.
I agree. I will also add that navigating Maps is no simple matter for programming, and the analog human brain can sort out routes on a map better than any programming(as of today). I've written here that sometimes the Garmin software just doesn't like a highway for what ever reason and you must force the issue with the waypoint tool for these errant highways. Looks to me like you found one of these highways; although, I could be wrong about your highway and waypoints may not fix it. Try the waypoints along the route, add a bunch, then start to remove one at a time and find the length of road Garmin doesn't like. It's tedious but it works for me and thankfully I've only had to mark two roads like this in the US so far.
 
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