Tell me why this is a bad idea!

OK I was wondering why this is an awful idea....

Has anyone UNLINED the brake system? Even temporarily? Seems like it would be easy enough to do and could get you out of a road side breakdown situation.

I'm currently experiencing (soon to be resolved) SMC problems and wondered if anyone had considered or even done this....again I know this must be a bad plan just wondering why ...

I'd think it would be easier to fix the problem than unlink the system, just replace my smc (too much constant rear brake drag for my comfort level), serviced all the calliper sliding a surfaces and bleed the system, only a days work at my snail pace.

Search for old threads on the subject. Somebody asks about this about once a year.

Replumbing the brake system to get around a solvable problem is a bit over the top.

--Mark

Blrfl said:

Search for old threads on the subject. Somebody asks about this about once a year.

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Ha... I figured... and even searched a little... well I guess it was my turn to ask...

So is there an easy roadside temp fix along this line that will get you home in a pinch? Or does bleeding off the rear work for awhile?

Why would you want to? The ST has a very good brake system that lasts for many miles. So are you suggesting that it makes sense to alter this because, after many years and months it might be easier than keeping the stock system maintained? Unless you either are an engineer specializing in brake systems and braking, or an experimenter who enjoys tinkering for what you will learn, it seems to me that it will be easier to take care of the bike as it came from Honda.

Something else to consider - were you to change the system, and then get in an accident, your insurance company might notice the altered brake system (admittedly a slim possibility) and get excited. Or, if in an unusual situation someone ended up riding your bike and had an accident. Same problem.

All good points...

But i question that it is a good brake system... it Seems like an overly complicated system that I don't think many other bikes use... it appears to have known and reoccuring problems that cause dangerous situations...

I'm no engineer and wouldn't seriously consider altering my bike in this way, unless some engineer had designed a way to do so safely...

Roadside solution?

Jethro77 said:

But i question that it is a good brake system... it Seems like an overly complicated system that I don't think many other bikes use... it appears to have known and reoccuring problems that cause dangerous situations...

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blasphemy, you cannot say such things..... even if there are many, many threads here on the topic of SMC failures. Honda and overly complicated in the same sentence, that's impossible.

The fix is easy and not expensive. Just replace the SMC assembly on the left front fork, bleed the system. Check, clean, and lube appropriate parts of the calipers and you should be good to go. Just did this for a friend and fellow forum member... easy peasy!

De linking brakes is a popular mod on the VFR. I didnt do it but some do.
If I was stuck with a dragging rear brake I would find some way to clamp that hose off I think.

Jethro77 said:

Roadside solution?

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AAA

I think it's a good idea to be prepared for issues that might need some roadside work but you can't fix everything on the road. I would assume you could release the brake enough to limp it to a place/area to get it fixed. Other than that... AAA if you can't.

As an engineering student in my senior year, I went to a job fair...Honda was just opening the Ohio plant, and had a booth for engineering students. I had my transcripts with me , and a pretty good ( 3.86) cumulative average. When the Honda folks saw my 'scripts, they looked apologetic, and said they were looking for more "scholarly" types. I was bummed out, but later decided that it was a sign that I should look into more Honda products. I now own two Honda bikes, an Acura car, and a Honda commercial mower. All have given me good service. If they made a full size pickup, I'd have one of those too!

My point is, MOST Honda designs work very well, despite an apparent disregard for the K.I.S.S. paradigm. Yes, the SMC can require a bit of work to keep it in top shape, but it works SO well as long as you do!

Along the lines of thought in the OP, the best idea I remember seeing here to temporarily disable the linked brakes in a sort of limp mode was a hard rubber or wooden wedge that was sized to fit along the back side of the left fork slider between the slider and the LH caliper bracket. Hose clamped or zip tied in place the wedge prevented the caliper bracket from moving forward and applying the SMC. If stuck somewhere some distance from home this rig would allow riding home although I think I remember in the post (with pics) the wedge was offered as a permanent solution.

I think a properly functioning system properly maintained is the solution but this was an idea to get home that I think has merit.

Just keep up on the maintenance and it won't fail on your long rides. With all the trouble I've had with mine, I've always caught the problem close to home. I expect they won't fail again. Initially I was relying on the shop to do the maintenance, but I paid for poor service and the brakes failed. They work now because of this forum. What I've learned the hard way and documented in this forum (just search the topics):

1) Clean the brake calipers and re-grease the slides with brake caliper grease every time you change tires.
2) Flush the brake lines and re-grease the SMC pivot bearing every winter during down time. Tedious but easy.
3) Put brake caliper grease under the boot of the SMC per manual (often forgotten).
4) If SMC is damaged, replace it.
5) Periodic checks on local rides and in the garage for good wheel spin when on the center stand, rotors can be held by the hand after 20 miles (with no hard braking prior to touch), firm brake lever and pedal, and constant breaking power.
6) Pay attention to what folks on this forum have written in the Articles and threads, they are experts on these bikes.

This reminded me. I usually carry a line locker with me in my tool kit, but, I never transferred that kit to the 13. Great something else to go find, I put it........somewhere. The line locker comes in handy in case of a caliper failure etc. You slip it over the rubber hose and tighten down the wingnut, effectively shutting down that part of the system. I've lost 3 over the years, loaned to other riders so they could make it home, none were ever mailed back......

klaproth said:

( 3.86) cumulative average. When the Honda folks saw my 'scripts, they looked apologetic, and said they were looking for more "scholarly" types.

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is it possible they were looking for PhDs and it wasn't your GPA that was the problem? Seems pretty narrow minded to only consider people with 4.00 GPAs. That might explain why you have to almost completely strip the 1100 body work to get to the radiator cap, they're so smart they're stupid.

I still remember one of my college recruiting interactions, where the representative told me to my face these exact words "we're only looking for women and minorities". Funny how that works, if he had said "we're only looking for white guys" he'd have been all over the news in a heartbeat.

dduelin said:

Re: Tell me why this is a bad idea!
Along the lines of thought in the OP, the best idea I remember seeing here to temporarily disable the linked brakes in a sort of limp mode was a hard rubber or wooden wedge that was sized to fit along the back side of the left fork slider between the slider and the LH caliper bracket. Hose clamped or zip tied in place the wedge prevented the caliper bracket from moving forward and applying the SMC. If stuck somewhere some distance from home this rig would allow riding home although I think I remember in the post (with pics) the wedge was offered as a permanent solution.

I think a properly functioning system properly maintained is the solution but this was an idea to get home that I think has merit.

Click to expand...

Thanks for a answer to the actual question x 3. The line locker sounds like a good option as well assuming there are not aftereffects of clamping an LBS artery.

Proper maintenance is definitely the best insurance but stuff happens and as Ozzie point out it's not always to us. A roadside repair is really handing in case AAA is not. It's probably quicker too

EDIT: Just to add: maybe a superior rider can use the brakes appropriately to get superior stopping control from a good unlinked brake system. Initially I didn't like the idea and the complexity (Old Man Mode: more things to do wrong) but I'm happy with them and don't think I'd gain anything with permanently unlinking them except a terminally light wallet. Not even 2? worth but there it is.

As someone who has delinked the brakes on my VFR800 I can comment that it is something you need to plan for because you need to maintain the correct relationship between the master cylinder piston area and the area of the caliper piston(s). If not you can create an overly sensitive and grabby brake, or end up feeling like the pads are made of wood! I did this on my VFR to allow use of better performing front calipers, and the de-link was a byproduct of that. When functioning properly the linked VFR brakes made for very stable stopping.


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TerryS said:

you need to maintain the correct relationship between the master cylinder piston area and the area if the caliber piston

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I ran into a problem when I converted my CB750 to dual discs and put the calipers behind the forks. Most of the bits were bolt-on but then the brake lever went to the grip with practically no effort or feel. The master cylinder piston was moving twice the area of caliper pistons.

My fix was to bold on a master cylinder from some Yamaha. The feel and performance returned to normal.

Early Moto Guzzis had linked Brakes. On my SP1000 actuating the rear also engaged one of the front calipers also.....but much simpler