Water pump leak

Hyzakp · Apr 7, 2016

Had my 08 ST1300 at the local dealership to track down a FI problem and a coolant leak. The FI problem was easily fixed. The coolant leak is another issue altogether. They said that the pump was leaking from the weep hole and would need to have the seals replaced. The cost for this was outrageous. Told them I would do it myself. How tough a job is this? Anyone here done it? I do have a shop manual.

Pat

Igofar · Apr 7, 2016

Your safer not letting them do the work!
Some dealers use this to generate revenue.
Have seen more than a few new late model ST's leak more after the alleged work done.
The seals need to be gently pressed in....problem is most shops just whack them in with a socket and hammer cracking the white ceramic seal.
There is a wealth of info on this site and in the articles on how to do it.
A small arbor press or large vice will work in a pinch.
The hardest part is scraping the gasket off.
Search the forum and check the clutch replacement thread also, it will show some tips that will help taking it apart.
You can do this yourself, if your not comfortable ask members in your area to assist, as the folks here are always willing to help each other.
Igofar

Blrfl · Apr 8, 2016

Hyzakp said:
The coolant leak is another issue altogether. They said that the pump was leaking from the weep hole and would need to have the seals replaced.

Before you start tearing the water pump apart, describe your leak and let's make sure it isn't the other common problem, which is the hose clamps in the system losing torque.

--Mark

dduelin · Apr 8, 2016

Odds are it's not the water pump at all. Coolant weeps and seeps from the hoses and thermostat housing above the engine are common. The path to drain comes out on the front right side near the weep hole then air blowing around under the fairing does the rest. A minor seep out the weep hole is no cause for alarm or opening your wallet. I fixed a similar diagnosis on my 05 by simply snugging up the hose clamps and replacing the O ring that seals the thermostat housing.

Steve398 · Apr 8, 2016

Just had my water pump fixed by my mechanic.

2009 ST1300 with 36000 miles on it, a bit early I would have thought but such things happen... whatever, it no longer leaks.

SupraSabre · Apr 8, 2016

On my '05, the waterpump was replaced around 50K by the dealer when it was in for a new alternator. Then at 116K I replaced it myself. At 184K (my son riding it) it's still going strong. Dealerships are there to make money and the way they make money is to do things fast! Changing out a waterpump takes time, so they will do whatever it takes to get it done quickly!

I will also be tearing into my 2004#1 to replace it's waterpump. I'm not looking forward to it! But it must be done before I can sell it.

As stated earlier, check out the many threads here, that's what I did when I replaced the '05s. Saved some pain!

Hyzakp · Apr 8, 2016

Told the dealer that I could not afford to have them do the work so I'm going haul it back home and investigate it myself.
The bike has only 31 K miles and that seems a bit early for that kind of failure. Is a water pump leak a common failure on these bike? I feel like I'm capable of doing the repair if needed. A labor rate of $120/hr. is ridiculous in my estimation.

Jethro77 · Apr 8, 2016

From peoples previous comments sounds like it is not your water pump, but if it I'm absolutely sure someone here will be able help you fix it. IGoFar just walked me through a brake problem and I am a complete newbie working on bikes....

$120 an hour seems insane to me unless they can pull it, rebuild, and re install it in an hour.... but I'm sure there is a book on the shelf telling them how much they can charge you for the job...

Igofar · Apr 8, 2016

With only 31k on the bike I would have to agree with everyone else that it's probably only loose clamps.
The shop may be just telling you it's a water pump to either charge mother honda, or they don't have a clue about how to work on an ST.

Reginald · Apr 9, 2016

Pictures?

Hyzakp · Apr 10, 2016

Removed the fairings today and this is what I found. Is this the water pump wee hole. There appears to be coolant seeping out.

Blrfl · Apr 10, 2016

On your bike, the water pump weep hole is behind the small fitting, and anything that comes out of it will be sent to the ground via the hose. (Honda added that in 2008. You can see what the pre-2008 water pump cover looked like, weep hole included, in this picture.) A small amount of leaking from there is normal.

The part of your picture that's needs to be looked at is overexposed, but if you have coolant coming out of the rectangular hole, that's not the water pump. There's a drain hole in the vee at the top of the engine that leads to a channel behind the water pump cover that empties there.

If your bike has been exposed to cold air while parked, odds are very good that one or more of the hose clamps on the thermostat housing or the coolant fittings on top of the engine has lost torque and is leaking. This is a very common, well-understood problem. There's extensive discussion about one solution which has worked just fine for me in this thread. You can also just re-torque the hose clamps, but the $25 I spent replacing them has been more than saved in time spent getting under there every couple of years.

--Mark

dduelin · Apr 10, 2016

The square hole drains the area above the engine and this is where hose clamp leaks come out. The water pump drains out of the end of the small rubber hose. If the water pump is leaking it can only drain out of that hose.

dduelin · Apr 10, 2016

Blrfl said:
.... You can also just re-torque the hose clamps, but the $25 I spent replacing them has been more than saved in time spent getting under there every couple of years.

--Mark

If you are under there doing other maintenance that comes along with time and miles - coolant changes and valve checks - the clamps are right there and take no time to snug 1/2 turn. This is something I did at 65,000 miles and again at 145,000 and took no special effort. Sorry to go off topic.

Hyzakp · Apr 15, 2016

I've been away from this for a few days. From what I can tell the throttle bodies have to be removed to access all the clamps that need to be tightened or replaced. What a PITA! Obviously this bike was not designed with maintenance in mind. Looks like the water pump is not leaking as I see no coolant coming from the weep hole but it is coming from the rectangular hole. Right now I kind of wish I still had my old C10 Concours. It was much easier to work on.

Pat

dduelin · Apr 15, 2016

Hyzakp said:
I've been away from this for a few days. From what I can tell the throttle bodies have to be removed to access all the clamps that need to be tightened or replaced. What a PITA! Obviously this bike was not designed with maintenance in mind. Looks like the water pump is not leaking as I see no coolant coming from the weep hole but it is coming from the rectangular hole. Right now I kind of wish I still had my old C10 Concours. It was much easier to work on.

Pat

It's quicker and easier to remove the radiator to access the coolant hoses and thermostat housing that will fix your weeps and seeps.

The service manual says to remove the throttle bodies but it's not necessary.

There is a tutorial on JPEG for doing a coolant change I can send you. It shows and details everything step by step. PM me an email address if you want a copy.

Blrfl · Apr 15, 2016

Hyzakp said:
From what I can tell the throttle bodies have to be removed to access all the clamps that need to be tightened or replaced. What a PITA! Obviously this bike was not designed with maintenance in mind.

This isn't maintenance, it's fixing something that Honda should have done correctly in the first place and shouldn't have to be done at all. It isn't as if you're going to be doing this at every oil change. The routine maintenance on this bike is, IMHO, pretty easy. Even the valve clearance check and adjustment is something I'd take any day of the week over the same job on a bike with a transverse, inline four.

You don't have to pull the throttle bodies to replace the clamps on the engine fittings. When I did mine, I popped them out of the boots to make some extra room to work but didn't disconnect any of the plumbing. In hindsight, I could have done the entire job with everything in place. If you're disconnecting the hoses at the thermostat housing, the clamps at the engine can be loosened, slid down the pipe and replaced by doing the opposite.

Re. Dave's comment, the hoses at the thermostat aren't always the culprits. The worst leakers on my bike were the two at the engine fittings, which is why I decided to replace all five. I don't think snugging them down once in awhile is the right answer, because a properly-selected, properly-torqued fastener should stay put indefinitely, even under these conditions. The clamps I installed in 2009 were torqued to the manufacturer's recommended spec, haven't been touched since and, as far as I can tell, haven't leaked a drop.

--Mark

dduelin · Apr 15, 2016

Blrfl said:
This isn't maintenance, it's fixing something that Honda should have done correctly in the first place and shouldn't have to be done at all. It isn't as if you're going to be doing this at every oil change. The routine maintenance on this bike is, IMHO, pretty easy. Even the valve clearance check and adjustment is something I'd take any day of the week over the same job on a bike with a transverse, inline four.

You don't have to pull the throttle bodies to replace the clamps on the engine fittings. When I did mine, I popped them out of the boots to make some extra room to work but didn't disconnect any of the plumbing. In hindsight, I could have done the entire job with everything in place. If you're disconnecting the hoses at the thermostat housing, the clamps at the engine can be loosened, slid down the pipe and replaced by doing the opposite.

Re. Dave's comment, the hoses at the thermostat aren't always the culprits. The worst leakers on my bike were the two at the engine fittings, which is why I decided to replace all five. I don't think snugging them down once in awhile is the right answer, because a properly-selected, properly-torqued fastener should stay put indefinitely, even under these conditions. The clamps I installed in 2009 were torqued to the manufacturer's recommended spec, haven't been touched since and, as far as I can tell, haven't leaked a drop.

--Mark

The only clamps you can't access from the front with a 6 mm flexible nut driver are the ones on the oil cooler... Did you replace these in 2009?

Re my comment should read "hoses above the engine and the O-ring in the thermostat housing". As written in #4 I might have been construed as referring to "only the hoses above the engine on the thermostat housing" which is only part of the job. The clamps on the metal joint pipes, engine fittings, on the cylinder heads are accessible from the front.

I think miles and all season use more than anything bear upon if the clamps ever need to be addressed more than once. A low mileage bike ridden part of the year is not likely to require it again. 65,000 miles between snugging is more than many bikes show on the clock.

Blrfl · Apr 15, 2016

dduelin said:
The only clamps you can't access from the front with a 6 mm flexible nut driver are the ones on the oil cooler... Did you replace these in 2009?

Nope. Just the five up top. The ones on the smaller hoses and those on the radiator fittings are still the same ones that came from the factory and haven't wept a drop.

And yes, I did misread your comment. I did the thermostat housing clamps during a coolant change and thought those were the source of all of it. The clamps on the engine happened later (without removing the hoses), and I needed to have the air box off for something else so I went at it form the top. If you can get to the engine clamps from the front, that's great; I'll keep it in mind for the next time the subject comes up.

I think miles and all season use more than anything bear upon if the clamps ever need to be addressed more than once. A low mileage bike ridden part of the year is not likely to require it again.

During the time my bike was leaking, I went from riding 9,000 miles a year to not much at all and can't say the leaky behavior was any different. All of that got covered in gory detail in the hose clamp thread, so I won't repeat it here.

--Mark

Hyzakp · Apr 16, 2016

Removed the radiator and I cannot see any leaks around the thermostat. I can see coolant back in the vee and coolant continues to dribble from the rectangular hole. Has anyone ever had a failure of the seal on the water pump cover? The connection I can't see is the one at the front of the engine on the left side looking from the front. Did see a drip at the front right and tightened it up. How difficult a job is it to remove the throttle bodies? The funny thing about all this is that the coolant didn't really start dripping till I had not ridin the bike in over a week when the FI problem showed up.

Pat

Water pump leak

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