Thoughts about this Carbs Synchronizer?

Afan · Apr 24, 2016

I found this YouTube video where ST1100 carbs are synced using the air-tool (below, or something very similar).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5OiSE9nq4M

[h=1]EMPI 43-5712 EMPI Universal Pro-Sync, w/2 Adapters[/h]
Thoughts?

tmds3 · Apr 24, 2016

I used that tool to sync my carbs on my ST1100, was easy to use and worked like a charm, not sure if it is as accurate as the one with mercury, but served my needs. I was able to get the carbs done and back on the road in about an hour.

John OoSTerhuis · Apr 24, 2016

Hi Afan. Some folks like the SK Flowmeter to sync their carbs. I prefer my old mercury manometer sync tool where the ST1100 air cleaner is buttoned up. A few years ago I did a comparo of the flowmeter, new style manometer with the blue fluid (EPA? mandated replacement for mercury) in individual reservoirs, and my merc sticks. The merc sticks were the clear winner. The SK airflow meter just didn't register accurately enough for me, plus the bike wasn't in riding condition (cleaner off) while measuring.

That said, I have an SK meter to loan for postage only. I made a 90 degree attachment for it so you don't have to have a helper to report the reading while turning the adjustment screw. I can bring it (and my merc sticks) to the Pardeeville TechSTOC next week. Will you be there? It's a great teaching event! You can catch the Slimey Crud Run on the way home Sunday.

edit: I can sync my carbs with my merc sticks in only a few minutes. A pair of deerskin work gloves makes reconnecting the #2 and #4 intake manifold vacuum hoses on a hot engine a non-issue.

edit2: To elaborate a bit - it took a large movement of the carb screw to register any movement of the SK's needle. After sync'g my carbs with the SK I hooked up the merc sticks to find two of the carbs to be seriously "off" from the base carb. FWIW... my experience. Dunno of anyone else's comparison/report.

John
via iPhone 6

Uncle Phil · Apr 24, 2016

I use the SKflowmeter and works fine for me. IIRC, it's origin was for the VW aircooled bugs. By no means does it have the precision as the mercury stuff, but it works mighty fine if you take your time and a little practice. ;-)

Note - I also purchased a long screwdriver to do the adjustment and have never had to use an 'assistant' to do the settings. I usually idle up the bike first til I get the 'marker' at a finite point, do the adjustments, then test at several rpm settings. I also remove the air cleaner base to make it a lot easier to get to the screws.

Bush · Apr 24, 2016

I'm happy with the results from the Flowmeter as well. Bike runs smooth and strong.

Joseph/TX · Apr 24, 2016

Bush said:
I'm happy with the results from the Flowmeter as well. Bike runs smooth and strong.

Me, also. One criticism that I've heard is that you have to remove the air cleaner to use it and that this is not how you normally run the bike. Seems to me that any difference with/without the air cleaner would apply equally to all the carbs and shouldn't affect the synch between them..

Afan · Apr 25, 2016

John OoSTerhuis said:
Hi Afan. Some folks like the SK Flowmeter to sync their carbs. I prefer my old mercury manometer sync tool where the ST1100 air cleaner is buttoned up. A few years ago I did a comparo of the flowmeter, new style manometer with the blue fluid (EPA? mandated replacement for mercury) in individual reservoirs, and my merc sticks. The merc sticks were the clear winner. The SK airflow meter just didn't register accurately enough for me, plus the bike wasn't in riding condition (cleaner off) while measuring.

That said, I have an SK meter to loan for postage only. I made a 90 degree attachment for it so you don't have to have a helper to report the reading while turning the adjustment screw. I can bring it (and my merc sticks) to the Pardeeville TechSTOC next week. Will you be there? It's a great teaching event! You can catch the Slimey Crud Run on the way home Sunday.

edit: I can sync my carbs with my merc sticks in only a few minutes. A pair of deerskin work gloves makes reconnecting the #2 and #4 intake manifold vacuum hoses on a hot engine a non-issue.

edit2: To elaborate a bit - it took a large movement of the carb screw to register any movement of the SK's needle. After sync'g my carbs with the SK I hooked up the merc sticks to find two of the carbs to be seriously "off" from the base carb. FWIW... my experience. Dunno of anyone else's comparison/report.

John
via iPhone 6

Hi John,
TechSTOC is great idea. I almost missed it. I'll definitely do my best to see you next weekend there.

ST1100Y · Apr 25, 2016

John OoSTerhuis said:
A pair of deerskin work gloves makes reconnecting the #2 and #4 intake manifold vacuum hoses on a hot engine a non-issue.

Solved that by installing a T-fitting with cap and a piece of tube with a connector (also capped) on the other side... ;-)

Timothy1959 · Jun 29, 2016

John OoSTerhuis said:
Hi Afan. Some folks like the SK Flowmeter to sync their carbs. I prefer my old mercury manometer sync tool where the ST1100 air cleaner is buttoned up. A few years ago I did a comparo of the flowmeter, new style manometer with the blue fluid (EPA? mandated replacement for mercury) in individual reservoirs, and my merc sticks. The merc sticks were the clear winner. The SK airflow meter just didn't register accurately enough for me, plus the bike wasn't in riding condition (cleaner off) while measuring.

That said, I have an SK meter to loan for postage only. I made a 90 degree attachment for it so you don't have to have a helper to report the reading while turning the adjustment screw. I can bring it (and my merc sticks) to the Pardeeville TechSTOC next week. Will you be there? It's a great teaching event! You can catch the Slimey Crud Run on the way home Sunday.

edit: I can sync my carbs with my merc sticks in only a few minutes. A pair of deerskin work gloves makes reconnecting the #2 and #4 intake manifold vacuum hoses on a hot engine a non-issue.

edit2: To elaborate a bit - it took a large movement of the carb screw to register any movement of the SK's needle. After sync'g my carbs with the SK I hooked up the merc sticks to find two of the carbs to be seriously "off" from the base carb. FWIW... my experience. Dunno of anyone else's comparison/report.

John
via iPhone 6

John,
I always appreciate your high quality posts to this forum. You have proven (with your EXPERIENCE) that manometer measuring carb vacuum for carb sync (Honda specified) is more accurate than using an air flow gage. Some people like to debate this with me. You have finally settled this argument. Thank you!

Tim

Brant · Jul 1, 2016

Afan said:
I found this YouTube video where ST1100 carbs are synced using the air-tool (below, or something very similar).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5OiSE9nq4M

[h=1]EMPI 43-5712 EMPI Universal Pro-Sync, w/2 Adapters[/h]
Thoughts?

Several here use that type of meter........unfortunately! Problem is: is may be easier to do, but is totally incorrect as far as syncing carbs properly. Properly,meaning the ST1100, in order for sync to be correct, it HAS to be done with ALL air filter pieces in place and operating correctly. This advice originally does NOT come from me. it came to me from a factory trained mecanic specificly on ST 1100's. I've known him for many yrs. now, and he is very finiky when working on ST's, and knows ALL the 'ins and outs' of these bikes. He initially re-set the idle mixtures and synced my carbs on my ST1100 while I watched in the Honda shop......learned a lot from him pertaining to these ole' ST's too

.......BTW, after the sync/tuning he did on my ST, it consistently got 50-52mpg at a constant cruisin' speed of 80-85mph.....can't argue with success

.

Brant · Jul 1, 2016

Timothy1959 said:
John,
I always appreciate your high quality posts to this forum. You have proven (with your EXPERIENCE) that manometer measuring carb vacuum for carb sync (Honda specified) is more accurate than using an air flow gage. Some people like to debate this with me. You have finally settled this argument. Thank you!
Tim

FYI, mercury manometer IS what ALL types of TRUE mnometers are gauged from initially.

Timothy1959 · Jul 1, 2016

Brant said:
FYI, mercury manometer IS what ALL types of TRUE mnometers are gauged from initially.

I know, but after toxic mercury got outlawed, the new Motion Pro manometer seems to work just FINE.
There seems to have been a BIG DEBATE with some people over manometer vs. flow meter. John has helped greatly to settle this debate once & for all.

Joseph/TX · Jul 2, 2016

Timothy1959 said:
I know, but after toxic mercury got outlawed, the new Motion Pro manometer seems to work just FINE.
There seems to have been a BIG DEBATE with some people over manometer vs. flow meter. John has helped greatly to settle this debate once & for all.

Hardly a "BIG DEBATE". Some people, myself included, have found that the flow meter works satisfactorily. After using it, my bike was much smoother. I'm happy. The O.P. asked for comments, and he got some. After re-reading the posts, I couldn't find any that suggested that gauges were not more accurate, just people saying that they were satisfied with the results with their flowmeters, and particularly with the ease of use compared to the gauges. If there's any debate at all, it would be over whether it makes a difference if the air cleaner is installed during the process. No one, including John, has explained why this would be the case, since it seems to me that the air cleaner being installed would affect all cylinders equally. I have great respect for John, who seems to prefer gauges, and also for Uncle Phil, who apparently is satisfied with his flowmeter. To each his own; that's why they make chocolate and vanilla..

Joseph/TX · Jul 2, 2016

Additional lagniappe: I thought the video was okay, as far as it went. It clearly demonstrated how easy the flowmeter is to use and how to properly use it. What was missing was something at the end, where he would start the bike and give us the results, as in "BIG improvement" or "Didn't seem to make much difference", or even "Don't buy this; it screwed up my bike". This omission is probably what prompted the original post.

Timothy1959 · Jul 2, 2016

Joseph/TX said:
Hardly a "BIG DEBATE". Some people, myself included, have found that the flow meter works satisfactorily. After using it, my bike was much smoother. I'm happy. The O.P. asked for comments, and he got some. After re-reading the posts, I couldn't find any that suggested that gauges were not more accurate, just people saying that they were satisfied with the results with their flowmeters, and particularly with the ease of use compared to the gauges. If there's any debate at all, it would be over whether it makes a difference if the air cleaner is installed during the process. No one, including John, has explained why this would be the case, since it seems to me that the air cleaner being installed would affect all cylinders equally. I have great respect for John, who seems to prefer gauges, and also for Uncle Phil, who apparently is satisfied with his flowmeter. To each his own; that's why they make chocolate and vanilla..

My conclusion to all of this: Since Mother Honda specifies "chocolate" I refuse to try & substitute "vanilla."

Uncle Phil · Jul 2, 2016

Timothy1959 said:
My conclusion to all of this: Since Mother Honda specifies "chocolate" I refuse to try & substitute "vanilla."

Dearest Timothy - After you ride 300,000+ miles on ST1100s, you may find that your opinions and your experience may vary just a little bit ... ;-) My experience is from what works for me with that mileage over three ST1100s. YEMV.

Timothy1959 · Jul 3, 2016

Uncle Phil said:
Dearest Timothy - After you ride 300,000+ miles on ST1100s, you may find that your opinions and your experience may vary just a little bit ... ;-) My experience is from what works for me with that mileage over three ST1100s. YEMV.

Uncle Phil,
I was NOT criticizing you, I was simply expressing my technical opinion (as a former motorcycle mechanic) on this apparently VERY controversial & emotionally sensitive subject.
The OEM (Honda) manual specifies vacuum at the intake manifold (with the air cleaner fully assembled) NOT air flow through the carbs (with the air cleaner dismantled). Multichannel-manometers are also more accurate than flow meters. John has proven this with his EXPERIENCE.
A long time ago (1979-1980) after 2 years of technical training, I then worked full time as a motorcycle mechanic for a Yamaha/BMW dealer on Long Island (near New York City). I was promoted to shop foreman after my first year.
I currently own, operate, repair & maintain my 11th road bike (a 1996 Honda ST1100). Check out all the "previous road bikes" in my profile.
I've been doing successful repair & maintenance on motorcycles since 1974 (42 YEARS).

Please define "YEMV?"
Dearest Timothy

Uncle Phil · Jul 3, 2016

Dearest Timothy - The only one that seems to think this is 'this apparently VERY controversial & emotionally sensitive subject' seems to be you. ;-) I am perfectly happy with the results of using the Flowmeter (and others with me) over 300,000+ miles and I trust that you will be perfectly happy using a manometer with your vast experience. I completely agree with that the manometer is more accurate but the Flowmeter works fine for folks. Since you have all that mechanic experience, I wonder why John had to confirm the manometer was more accurate for you and the purpose of your original post. Unless you just like to kick over a can of crap and then point out how other folks should clean it up while noting how bad it smells ...

Uncle Phil · Jul 3, 2016

Dearest Timothy - You seem to have missed - and I'll say it again in case you missed it in the quoted post- I do agree the manometer is more accurate but the Flowmeter works well for other folks such as myself. But please notice I also asked you a question which you did not respond to. I said 'unless you just like...', so do you? ;-) Not an attack, just a question.

Timothy1959 · Jul 3, 2016

Uncle Phil said:
Dearest Timothy - You seem to have missed - and I'll say it again in case you missed it in the quoted post- I do agree the manometer is more accurate but the Flowmeter works well for other folks such as myself. But please notice I also asked you a question which you did not respond to. I said 'unless you just like...', so do you? ;-) Not an attack, just a question.

Phil,
I didn't realize that this discussion of ours was going to be so closely moderated.
You didn't ask me any questions in your 4:19 AM post. Questions must always end with a question mark (?).
To answer your question from your 7:24 AM post, no I do not like to kick over a "can of crap..." I could say a whole lot more but it would probably get censored.
Speaking of questions, you never answered my question, "Please define 'YEMV?"
Writing "Dearest Timothy" in a public forum is snarky & inflammatory.
I am glad that you agree with me that manometers are more accurate than flow meters. I will continue to follow the OEM (Honda's) service procedures as closely as possible in order to achieve maximum performance and durability from the vehicles.
Thanks for sharing.

Tim

Thoughts about this Carbs Synchronizer?

Afan

... and this is my real name.

tmds3

John OoSTerhuis

Life Is Good!

Uncle Phil

Bush

Joseph/TX

R.I.P. - 2016/11/13

Afan

... and this is my real name.

ST1100Y

Timothy1959

Brant

Brant

Timothy1959

Joseph/TX

R.I.P. - 2016/11/13

Joseph/TX

R.I.P. - 2016/11/13

Timothy1959

Uncle Phil

Timothy1959

Uncle Phil

Uncle Phil

Timothy1959