In the middle of a timing belt change RIGHT NOW!

Joined
Nov 28, 2015
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46
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Santa Cruz Co, CA (formerly Vermont)
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'97 ST1100
I'm finally buckling down to do the timing belt change that I've been putting off for too long (and that PO put off for WAY too long) and I'm running into a problem: It seems that I have to take the clutch cover off to take the timing cover off, and I have to take the right side exhaust off to get to one of the clutch cover bolts.

Has anyone managed to take the timing cover off without removing the clutch cover?

If I take off the exhaust, do I have to go out and get new crush washers too?

Thanks for any advice!
 
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Fort Worth, Texas
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91 ST1100/06 ST1300
Thank you! Super helpful. I will endeavor to try the search function first next time so you all don't have to google it for me!
My timing cover took a bit of wiggling and some help from a screwdriver to remove...I covered the end with tape so I wouldn't damage anything. Note where the binding occurs (right at the clutch cover) and sand or grind if down until the timing cover slips snugly back into place. The link mcthorogood referenced is great. I did all my work on the little timing cover...cause it's cheaper to replace than a messed up front cover.
 
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John OoSTerhuis

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Bettendorf, Iowa
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1991 SSMST1100
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1058
Tip: before you pull the old belt, count the number of belt teeth between the driven pulleys and duplicate that when installing the new one. My original, OEM belt:
http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=849&fullsize=1
As you can see, 51 teeth BETWEEN The pulleys' marks, duplicated during both my R&Rs.
FWIW - my pictures (sorry, haven't gotten around to captioning them after Webshots died):
http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=34
The AOW article:
http://www.st-riders.net/index.php?topic=3523

I just grabbed my timing belt cover by the top and pulled it up and out. Then trimmed it for the next time.

John :STOC: Ten Fifty-Eight
via my new iPad Mini 2
 
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West Michigan
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When I changed my timing belt, after putting the crankshaft in the correct position and verified that the camshaft timing marks also were lined up properly, etc, etc, I then marked the old belt with some dabs of "white out" at the marks on the camshaft gears. After I removed the old belt, I "transferred" the dabs on the old belt to the new belt. That way it was a lot easier to install the new belt exactly as the old belt was installed.

Of course when finished, the position of the camshaft gears must be verified, as well as the position of the crankshaft. Basically, I accomplished what John O. is talking about, but I think using the whiteout is simpler and easier than counting. I like simple, if at all possible.
 
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OP
OP
Dirt Road
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Nov 28, 2015
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46
Location
Santa Cruz Co, CA (formerly Vermont)
Bike
'97 ST1100
When I changed my timing belt, after putting the crankshaft in the correct position and verified that the camshaft timing marks also were lined up properly, etc, etc, I then marked the old belt with some dabs of "white out" at the marks on the camshaft gears. After I removed the old belt, I "transferred" the dabs on the old belt to the new belt. That way it was a lot easier to install the new belt exactly as the old belt was installed.

Of course when finished, the position of the camshaft gears must be verified, as well as the position of the crankshaft. Basically, I accomplished what John O. is talking about, but I think using the whiteout is simpler and easier than counting. I like simple, if at all possible.
I basically did this, but now I have another urgent problem. When I was fitting the belt the left side driven pulley spun way out of alignment. Do I have to rotate it a specific direction, or can I just haul it back to roughly where it should be, fit it to the right tooth on the belt, and get it just right with the tensioners at the end?
 

John OoSTerhuis

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Bettendorf, Iowa
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1991 SSMST1100
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1058
Should be OK moving it back the opposite direction, as long as the drive pulley (crank) wasn't moved. With an interference engine like the ST1100, you can only move the cams by hand so far before a valve will stop further movement because it contacts the top of a piston. I put a small wood wedge under the left driven pulley to hold it while the belt is off/being installed.

The right driven pulley will probably have to be rotated off its mark towards the left pulley while installing the new belt with the correct number of teeth. Its marks should line back up when the tension pulley is released and the belt's slack is taken up. BTDTx2

Edit: 'left' and 'right' meaning from the position of a rider, the orientation used in the service manual instructions.

John
via iPhone 6
 
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OP
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alright, I got everything on, with the correct belt teeth in the exact correct positions on each pulley. However, I think the crankshaft has shifted at least once, and I'm not getting the correct readjustment when I reattach the tensioner. The punch marks on the cam pulleys aren't lining up properly. I would assume the first step is to make sure that the crank is in TDC. What's the best way to ensure it's back at TDC? Do I have to put the cover back on to use that mark? After that is there anything I can do if the punch marks still don't line up?

EDIT: I just noticed in the article that there should be a punch mark on the crank that I wasn't noticing. Either way, gonna take the bus to work tomorrow and do it right after. Any advice still much appreciated!

EDIT 2: I adjusted the crank, bringing it back to where it should be. Now the left (from rider position) pulley is perfect. The right one appears to be exactly one tooth off. I'm fairly confident I counted correctly, but I may have messed up. Hopefully there's no problem with the belt itself. I'll take it off, recount everything all the way around. Last time I counted the distance from crank to left pulley and left to right pulley. This time I'll go all the way around and make sure my marks are correct. If I happen to have it all correct, is it possible that the problem is in the tensioner? The pulley is rotated one tooth too far clockwise (looking at it from the front). Is it okay to just move the belt one tooth over?
 
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soCal
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687
Here's the diagram from the service manual showing how to align the crank to TDC.

BTW, when I did mine with the Gates belt, for unknown reasons I just couldn't get the timing marks to line up exactly no matter what I tried. They were off by about 1/2 tooth in either direction, no matter how I tensioned the belt. I eventually got it so they were off a little less than 1/2 tooth in the direction where if the belt were to stretch at all, the misalignment would go away. So if you're off by a fraction of a tooth, don't sweat it, but any more than that and you've probably got something misaligned that needs to be fixed. If in doubt, don't chance it, take pictures and report back. If you bend a few valves you'll be hating life.

Document (12).jpg
 
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John OoSTerhuis

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Bettendorf, Iowa
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1991 SSMST1100
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1058
Per the manual, you begin the belt removal with the T1 mark on the crank pulley lined up with the index mark on the case, and the punch mark lined up with the 'projection' on the case. This is TDC on the #1 (right front) cylinder. I put a rod down the spark plug hole and watch it bob up as the piston rises while I rotate the crank, to confirm TDC.

If your crank wasn't moved too far, back it up until the T1 and punch marks are lined up. If the driven pulleys don't align with their marks, remove the belt and position the left one to its mark and install the belt again starting with the crank, then water pump. Then count teeth again to the right pulley and release tensioner. Confirm the index lines on the camshaft ends.

You haven't broken anything. Take your time. Report back please.

Edit: follow the procedure in the service manual carefully for applying initial tension on a new belt, and then final torquing of the tensioner bolt.

John
 
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John OoSTerhuis

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1991 SSMST1100
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1058
I just noticed your edits this morning. Firstly, there's no need to count teeth from the crank to the left driven pulley. That's a fixed distance and won't change/can't be adjusted. Just fit the belt into the crank teeth and route the belt around the water pump to the left driven pulley. Fit it on there so the marks line up. Then count teeth to the right pulley.

Given your remark about the only thing now "off" when fully assembled is one tooth at the right pulley, I'd move the belt there that one tooth and check again. Maybe you counted teeth wrong. If everything then lines up you're good to go.

Wish I could be there to be a second set of eyes on the procedure. I know you were posting late, hope things are looking better in the new day. You'll get through this OK.

John
 
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Edit: 'left' and 'right' meaning from the position of a rider, the orientation used in the service manual instructions.
The "left driven pulley" is on your right side as you're in front of the engine putting the timing belt back on. It took me a while to get used to this.
 
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Given your remark about the only thing now "off" when fully assembled is one tooth at the right pulley, I'd move the belt there that one tooth and check again. Maybe you counted teeth wrong. If everything then lines up you're good to go.
Make sure you have the belt fully tensioned between the left and right pulleys. If you're counting teeth from the left to right pulley, and need the right pulley one tooth clockwise (from front) to align to your count, then it sounds like you might have a little slop in the belt tension between the L/R pulleys. Did you get the same count of 51 teeth like John mentioned? This is where I ran into difficulty with mine, no matter how hard I pulled on the belt, I couldn't get the two alignment marks perfect, the belt just wouldn't stretch enough to allow them to line up exactly. BTW, I did mine 2 years ago, and the bike runs perfectly. That fraction of a tooth doesn't matter, but don't allow it to be off by a full tooth.
 
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finger lakes ny
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That fraction of a tooth doesn't matter, but don't allow it to be off by a full tooth.
Mine was also very slightly off. Couldn't get it perfect. No problems since,,

Other than the WATER PUMP, which I shoulda done at the same time!
 
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alright, I got everything on, with the correct belt teeth in the exact correct positions on each pulley. However, I think the crankshaft has shifted at least once, and I'm not getting the correct readjustment when I reattach the tensioner. The punch marks on the cam pulleys aren't lining up properly. I would assume the first step is to make sure that the crank is in TDC. What's the best way to ensure it's back at TDC? Do I have to put the cover back on to use that mark? After that is there anything I can do if the punch marks still don't line up?

EDIT: I just noticed in the article that there should be a punch mark on the crank that I wasn't noticing. Either way, gonna take the bus to work tomorrow and do it right after. Any advice still much appreciated!

EDIT 2: I adjusted the crank, bringing it back to where it should be. Now the left (from rider position) pulley is perfect. The right one appears to be exactly one tooth off. I'm fairly confident I counted correctly, but I may have messed up. Hopefully there's no problem with the belt itself. I'll take it off, recount everything all the way around. Last time I counted the distance from crank to left pulley and left to right pulley. This time I'll go all the way around and make sure my marks are correct. If I happen to have it all correct, is it possible that the problem is in the tensioner? The pulley is rotated one tooth too far clockwise (looking at it from the front). Is it okay to just move the belt one tooth over?
:plus1: To what John said above. And I like the wood wedge idea. Easier ( simpler ) than using a C- Clamp like I used.

You situation is why I suggested to use the whiteout to deal with the right hand camshaft pulley being a tooth of two out of position. Keep futsing with it until it's correct. You will get it correct after a few tries. And make darn sure the crank gear is in the correct position when checking the camshaft positions. There is no room for error here, everything has to be dead-nuts.
 
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OP
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Santa Cruz Co, CA (formerly Vermont)
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'97 ST1100
Just to be clear, that is 51 belt teeth BETWEEN the marks on the driven pulleys. See my belt picture linked above.
I referred back to your photo again, made sure the crank was on point, counted the teeth between the two pulleys with exact same demarcation that you used on your belt, and GUESS WHAT! ...It's one tooth short between the cranks, which means when I correct it the right side pulley (once again from the rider position) should be perfectly on point as well. Here are some pictures of it now. If my phone (ie camera) doesn't die, I'll also post pictures after I fix it so y'all can confirm.

View attachment 173864View attachment 173865View attachment 173866View attachment 173867View attachment 173868
 
OP
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Alright, I corrected it. The tic marks are each about half a tooth off (too far clockwise) as you can see in these pictures. Dwalby said above that it's okay if the pulleys are a fraction of a tooth off. Is this okay? I considered whether it's possible that there's a problem with the distance between the crankshaft and the left side pulley but wrote that off, mostly because 1) the crank is in the correct position and the pulleys are equally off by less than a tooth (about 1/3 of a tooth), and 2) I counted and marked that distance on the old belt before taking it off and it is perfectly matched on this one. SO: the problem seems to be with the tension. From what I'm hearing from a number of you, this tends to happen, it's usually slightly imperfect, and there isn't a whole lot to be done about it. Should I just tighten all the bolts down to the specified torque settings, put the pulley cover plate back on, and turn the engine over a few times at this point? Or, is there anything else I can do to possibly bring it into line? Over all I'm feeling pretty good about it so far!
FullSizeRender_1.jpg FullSizeRender.jpg
 
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