Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires - 96 ST1100

Timothy1959 · Jun 9, 2016

I recently bought a 1996 ST1100 (standard) that the P.O. had fitted with a pair of Metzeler Roadtec Z6 radial tires. The handling was CRAPPY and inconsistent across a wide speed range (5 to 135 MPH). I replaced the radials with a new set of Bridgestone bias ply Exedra G547, G548 per Honda's recommendation (label under seat & owner's manual). The handling has improved DRAMATICALLY at all speeds & riding conditions! My conclusion: Bias ply tires work MUCH BETTER on this bike than radial tires. It is comforting to know that Bridgestone designed the Exedra G547 & G548 tires specifically for the 1996 Honda ST1100 (standard)!

Bush · Jun 9, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Timothy1959 · Jun 9, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Bush said:

Only 11 minutes to respond... I'm glad to see that you are still paying attention! :smile:

Steve398 · Jun 9, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Bridgestone BT54 radials were a considerable improvement on the Excedras in about 2000, I actually did the testing on them for Honda UK on the ST1100 before they were approved as a fitment. However, different people like different tyres, if you like the Bias belted Excedras stick with them.

TerryS · Jun 9, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Timothy what specifically did you find on the radials? My reason for asking is that I just bought an ST11 with 10-year old mismatched radials (Pirelli Dragon GT front, Conti Road Attack rear, both stock sizes) and I find the front has a pretty vague feel straight ahead, and gets a little nervous feeling on chip-sealed surfaces and/or in the wake of another vehicle. Funnily enough pushed hard in bends both tyres feel great, but the front has very poor traction on damp surfaces. I was intending to keep the Conti and replace the Pirelli with a Metzeler Z8, as I have sets of those on my other two bikes and love them to bits.

Timothy1959 · Jun 9, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

TerryS said:
Timothy what specifically did you find on the radials? My reason for asking is that I just bought an ST11 with 10-year old mismatched radials (Pirelli Dragon GT front, Conti Road Attack rear, both stock sizes) and I find the front has a pretty vague feel straight ahead, and gets a little nervous feeling on chip-sealed surfaces and/or in the wake of another vehicle. Funnily enough pushed hard in bends both tyres feel great, but the front has very poor traction on damp surfaces. I was intending to keep the Conti and replace the Pirelli with a Metzeler Z8, as I have sets of those on my other two bikes and love them to bits.

Terry, It's a little hard for me to describe because I don't have a lot of recent road riding experience with different tires. I only reactivated my motorcycle hobby over the past 3 years or so. The handling of the bike was such that it felt like I had to 'over-steer' just to make it corner the way I wanted. The radials felt unsafe, the level of 'grip' varied, depending on lean angle. The bias ply tires are much more 'neutral' feeling. I have more confidence and feel much safer. The grip is more predictable. MUCH MORE comfortable to ride the bike at all speeds and road types. It feels like I bought a NEW BIKE!

desertech · Jun 11, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

You don't mention anything about the condition of the tires when you bought the bike do this may or may not be relevant. Last year I purchased a 2001 ST1100 with only 13K on the clock. I was coming off a 1996 ST1100 with three times the mileage. The older bike had Bridgetown Battlax radials on it and it handled like a dream. When the 2001 showed up, first ride it handled the way you describe in your reply to Terry. The 2001 had the same bias ply tires on it you replaced yours with. In other words I should have made the opposite conclusion. Turns out the front tire on the 2001 was the original tire (rear was not). From the tread wear pattern you could tell the front had been "squared off". Replaced both front and rear with new Battlax tires and the handling was EXACTLY the same as the 1996 - a dream. Consistently responsive, smooth, effortless at both slower and high speeds. Point being that IMO tire condition CAN be the cause rather than tire construction. I'm assuming you checked inflation but it can also give you some of the same symptoms.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

TerryS · Jun 11, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

You are quite right desertech. I've been riding for nearly 30 years, and I always look forward to installing a new set of tyres and returning a bike to that new feeling. With my ST I have resisted getting new tyres from the off, because I was not 100% sure I would keep the bike (bought as a non-running restoration project). Having covered more than 2000 km now, I am falling for the bike's charms and I have mentally committed to continuing the restoration process. The front tyre is definitely in need of replacement as it has gone a bit triangular; my riding style and roads that I cover result in heavy wear at a moderate lean angle, so not exactly squared off. I expect that a new front tyre will sort my handling out nicely.

Timothy1959 · Jun 11, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

desertech said:
You don't mention anything about the condition of the tires when you bought the bike do this may or may not be relevant. Last year I purchased a 2001 ST1100 with only 13K on the clock. I was coming off a 1996 ST1100 with three times the mileage. The older bike had Bridgetown Battlax radials on it and it handled like a dream. When the 2001 showed up, first ride it handled the way you describe in your reply to Terry. The 2001 had the same bias ply tires on it you replaced yours with. In other words I should have made the opposite conclusion. Turns out the front tire on the 2001 was the original tire (rear was not). From the tread wear pattern you could tell the front had been "squared off". Replaced both front and rear with new Battlax tires and the handling was EXACTLY the same as the 1996 - a dream. Consistently responsive, smooth, effortless at both slower and high speeds. Point being that IMO tire condition CAN be the cause rather than tire construction. I'm assuming you checked inflation but it can also give you some of the same symptoms.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

You may be right. I didn't do a fair (scientific) comparison of radial vs. bias ply tires on this particular bike. The old Metzeler radials tread was worn down about 50 - 60 % of original depth. They did not have any dry rot or uneven wear, but they may have been mismatched to the bike and/or to each other. For tire pressure I was using OEM (36 psi FRONT, 42 psi REAR). The model #s of these (Metzeler Roadtec Z6) tires were NOT listed on the under-seat label or owner's manual. From what I could tell on this forum, this bike was designed (back in 1996) to use bias ply tires.

Steve398 · Jun 20, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Timothy1959 said:
You may be right. I didn't do a fair (scientific) comparison of radial vs. bias ply tires on this particular bike. The old Metzeler radials tread was worn down about 50 - 60 % of original depth. They did not have any dry rot or uneven wear, but they may have been mismatched to the bike and/or to each other. For tire pressure I was using OEM (36 psi FRONT, 42 psi REAR). The model #s of these (Metzeler Roadtec Z6) tires were NOT listed on the under-seat label or owner's manual. From what I could tell on this forum, this bike was designed (back in 1996) to use bias ply tires.

At the time the bike was made it I suspect that the Metzler radials may not have been in production, and therefore it would be impossible for them to be approved by Honda at that time. I actually took part in the testing/approval process of the Bridgestone BT54 radial for the ST1100 in about 2000/2001 when I was working for Honda UK, when they were judged to be a huge improvement on the Excedras, particularly in the wet. I also believe that there was a Dunlop approved as well as the Excedras.

ST1300 OEM tyres were the Bridgestone BT020 which are I assume no longer made, so there are now any number of radial tyres being fitted to the ST1300 with only the tyre manufacturers recommendations, not Hondas, as to whether they are suitable.

However, various riders favour various tyres, so if it feels good...

dwalby · Jun 20, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

I'm running a Metzeler Z6 on the front right now and I really like the way it handles.

I've been swapping bias and radials on the same bike for 19 years. While there are slight handling differences between the two constructions, and variations from brand to brand, I've never encountered any one tire that I would purposely avoid. I think your issues were due to the tire being worn, old, etc. as opposed to being "wrong" for the bike.

Tidrick · Jun 20, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Ran a set of Z6 on a previous ST1100. Rear was wrong profile size (closest that was available at the time) so it was a bit more work to get the bike up on the center stand. However - handling - LOVED those tires! Very confidence inspiring right down to the threads showing up quite unexpectedly at 5500 miles. Never bought another set ONLY because of the rapid wear.

New tires always feel incredible after about 50 miles or so....

Bush · Jun 21, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Been using Metzeler Z series on two 1100's for 16 years, starting with Z4's. Great tire in all conditions and long life for me. I'll be buying another set soon.

Timothy1959 · Jun 22, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

dwalby said:
I'm running a Metzeler Z6 on the front right now and I really like the way it handles.

I've been swapping bias and radials on the same bike for 19 years. While there are slight handling differences between the two constructions, and variations from brand to brand, I've never encountered any one tire that I would purposely avoid. I think your issues were due to the tire being worn, old, etc. as opposed to being "wrong" for the bike.

You may be right. I guess it would be only fair to compare new radials to new bias ply tires. The old radials on my bike were old & worn.

Timothy1959 · Jun 22, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Bush said:
Been using Metzeler Z series on two 1100's for 16 years, starting with Z4's. Great tire in all conditions and long life for me. I'll be buying another set soon.

I think that "Metzeler Z series" and "long life" is too vague for this level of technical discussion. What is the model # of the tires you are happy with? How many miles is "long life?"

The Metzeler model # that Honda specifies for my bike is ME33 LASER (for the FRONT) and ME55 A METRONIC (for the REAR).

Timothy1959 · Jun 22, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

TXST_Rider said:
Ran a set of Z6 on a previous ST1100. Rear was wrong profile size (closest that was available at the time) so it was a bit more work to get the bike up on the center stand. However - handling - LOVED those tires! Very confidence inspiring right down to the threads showing up quite unexpectedly at 5500 miles. Never bought another set ONLY because of the rapid wear.

New tires always feel incredible after about 50 miles or so....

5500 miles seems OUTRAGEOUSLY LOW for any set of tires on any motor vehicle.

Slydynbye · Jun 22, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Timothy1959 said:
5500 miles seems OUTRAGEOUSLY LOW for any set of tires on any motor vehicle.

They had a soft compound that offered great traction but, Yeah they burnt up FAST. I loved them but couldn't afford to keep replacing them all the time.

Timothy1959 · Jun 23, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

Slydynbye said:
They had a soft compound that offered great traction but, Yeah they burnt up FAST. I loved them but couldn't afford to keep replacing them all the time.

I would much rather be able to use a vehicle instead of have to spend a whole lot & time & money replacing worn out parts.

RedMotion · Jun 23, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

OEM Bridgestone and ME880s are my mileage kings...mostly slab. I found the ME880s got a little loose towards the end of their life.
OEM Bridgestone-17,661
MEZ4-8,457
ME880-15,595
ME880-14,429
Z6- 10,171
LaserTec- 4,055 (Front failure)
Metronic rear- 10,816
OEM G547- 15,601 G548- 11,821
Z6- Front- 9,058
G548- 12,640

Timothy1959 · Jun 24, 2016

Re: Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires on a 1996 ST1100 (standard)

RedMotion said:
OEM Bridgestone and ME880s are my mileage kings...mostly slab. I found the ME880s got a little loose towards the end of their life.
OEM Bridgestone-17,661
MEZ4-8,457
ME880-15,595
ME880-14,429
Z6- 10,171
LaserTec- 4,055 (Front failure)
Metronic rear- 10,816
OEM G547- 15,601 G548- 11,821
Z6- Front- 9,058
G548- 12,640

"OEM Bridgestone-17,661" Now THAT'S what I'm taking about!

Metzeler radial vs Bridgestone bias ply Exedra tires - 96 ST1100

Timothy1959

Bush

Timothy1959

Steve398

... another retired Black Rat.

TerryS

Timothy1959

desertech

TerryS

Timothy1959

Steve398

... another retired Black Rat.

dwalby

Tidrick

Keith B. Tidrick

Bush

Timothy1959

Timothy1959

Timothy1959

Slydynbye

Will ride for Pie

Timothy1959

RedMotion

Timothy1959