Q for guys who've crashed

Just for the guys who have laid it down or crashed -- I'm wondering how many got right back on and how many ... didn't.

I've been riding for about 30 years. I had one accident on the bike that wasn't my fault about 13 years ago. Messed up my ST1300, but I got right back on as soon as it was fixed. Now I've just laid down my CTX for the second time in less than a year, this last time totaling it. Both times were my own fault, and luckily no one else was involved. I always ride geared up, so both times I was lucky enough to escape with minor scrapes and bruises.

The last time, back in October, I couldn't wait to get the bike back to get back on, even though confidence took a little hit. This time, though, as soon as it happened, I was actually hoping it was totaled because I really felt like I didn't want to ride any more. Now it's almost two weeks after the crash, two days after I agreed with insurance to total it, and I still have zero desire to replace it. The CTX1300 was the nicest bike I've ever owned, and hands-down my favorite. I could even get a new one now for less than I paid for that one. But the desire seems to be gone. I don't want another CTX, and there's absolutely nothing else out there creating even a hint of an itch. I'm also not a kid any more; at 58, that concern is now stronger than ever that the law of averages will catch up and the next time I might not be so lucky. And with two lay-downs causing pretty serious damage in such a short time, I'm of course feeling like it's a sure thing that there will be a next time.

I enjoyed riding, but I'm hardly what you could call hard-core, averaging maybe 3000 bike miles a year these last few years. But I've always had one in the garage since that first one, usually going out with a buddy for a day ride at least every couple of weeks. But right now, I just don't care if I ever ride again.

I know there's a lot of serious riders on this board, which means there are surely a few who've had some similar unfortunate incidents. I'm just wondering how many just took it in stride and kept going, how many it scared the bajeezus out of but got back in the saddle eventually, and how many just lost interest and hung it up. Basically trying to figure out if this apathy will pass or not.

Thanks for bearing with my rambling.

Wow Ed,
Glad your still around to tell us about all the wrecks.
I'm posting this for everyone to read. Some have seen it and some haven't.
If your everything on the right side of the page, I'd purchase another bike and all is good. If you favor most of the actions on the left side of the page, I'd recommend hanging up your helmet.
Just my 2 cents

My wife and I totaled our '91 ST1100 in 2004. It was just before WeSTOC and I was antsy to get back on a bike. As soon as I learned it was totaled I went out and bought an '04 ST1300. Rode it to WeSTOC a month or so after that. Two things happened after the wreck. It took about a year for me to be completely comfortable on the bike. It also took a year before my wife would get back on the bike. We hit transmission fluid which caused us to go down. I found myself looking just in front of the bike checking for oil. That effected my ability to ride properly.

Put your insurance settlement in the bank and give it some time. If the itch comes back use it to get a new bike when you're ready. If you never feel like riding again so be it....

Not long after I got back into riding after a long hiatus, I totaled my ST1100 and badly injured my ankle. I bought another while still hobbling around in a cast-boot and cane. I used the recovery time to get the bike in shape, but when I got to riding, I was still a little skittish and it took several months before I felt modestly confident in my turns. Ten years later i totaled my ST1300, but didn't injure myself much. Bought another a few days later and rode it 500 miles home while wearing a wrist brace. I feel more confident now than before and I have 6 years on you. I hope to ride it into the sunset. Everybody has different experiences and outlooks. Only you can decide what's best for you.

If you know what caused the crash, can you change your behavior. If it is your riding skills, work on your riding skills. If you are not willing to work on your skill or behavior when riding, then take a break for a while to see how you feel later. Safety first. Everyone needs to refresh there skills and check there ride attitude to make sure they are ready to ride. Riding just every couple of weeks will make your skill level lower than it should be. Practice and keep your mind in the right frame for riding. Besides everyone else out there is out to get you when you ride, so don't help them out. If you can not or are not willing to do what you need to do to be safer, then do not ride.

I've had a couple of big crashes one of which kept me off motos for 5 months and lots of smaller ones on dirt bikes. I was always surprised how bad I wanted to get back on the bike. It took awhile to work back up to speed. One of the things that amazes me is how MotoGP or Superbike racers can crash big time, and jump right back up and be instantly back up to speed. It takes me at least a couple weeks to slowly, gradually gain my confidence and ride at the same speed as before the crash.

42 years,,, accident free,, and I understand everything being said here. The same thoughts cross my mind all the time,, these days. And lately I have been very conscious about how I influence other young potential riders. Over the past week,, two young guys have come up to talk about their desire to ride,, and I have done my best to rationally talk them out of it. A 16 year old was killed here a few days ago and his 15 year old passenger is still critical, after an 85 year old cager made a left turn in front of them at a light. I know that if the young lads I spoke with are truly determined to ride,,, nothing will stop them. I was invincible once myself,,, if ya know what I mean,,, but I know now that was never even remotely the case. Why we ride,,, it is not such a simple question after all,, or is it ?? Maybe the answer is,, "because we want too". With 8000 (advertised) bikes visiting Wasaga this weekend,,, I know I will be out there,, and I know the environment will be even more hazardous than it typically is. I suppose I enjoy the challenge to my developed and practised skills. It is a bit different for everyone,,, and each of us knows when it is time to hang up the helmet,,, and/or park the bike for a while,,, or even send her to a good home. Stay safe everyone,,, I need a coffee,,,, Cat'

Paul st1300 said:

If you know what caused the crash, can you change your behavior. If it is your riding skills, work on your riding skills. If you are not willing to work on your skill or behavior when riding, then take a break for a while to see how you feel later. Safety first. Everyone needs to refresh there skills and check there ride attitude to make sure they are ready to ride. Riding just every couple of weeks will make your skill level lower than it should be. Practice and keep your mind in the right frame for riding. Besides everyone else out there is out to get you when you ride, so don't help them out. If you can not or are not willing to do what you need to do to be safer, then do not ride.

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Excellent thoughts and advice from everybody, and I appreciate them all, but I wanted to touch on this one ...

Riding skills -- we all like to think we're Mark Marquez, but usually with age we realize we're not. I had actually been thinking about looking into an advanced skills course somewhere, but just hadn't gotten around to it.

As for what caused the crash, I'm mostly beyond hot-dogging, except for being a little heavy-footed on the highway. But I don't go dragging parts around twisties like in years past. This last one happened about 1/2 mile from my house, on the end of my fairly rural twisty road that I've ridden dozens of times before. What caused the crash was a simple lack of concentration -- I was almost home, my mind started drifting to some family issues that I need to take care of, and next thing I knew I'm upon an off-camber left bend that there was no way I was going to make it through. Hit the dirt on the side of the road and that was that. Couldn't have been going much more than 25.

You're absolutely right about being in the right frame of mind; in fact part of what I enjoyed most about riding is that the concentration and focus it requires takes my mind off the rest of life's bs. Except for this time. But this is exactly what my wife said -- we're dealing with some crap with my father, and we're both very distracted right now. She's blotto'd at work, and I'm losing my mind and crashing things. The problem is, there's always crap of some kind going on, and up until now I've been able to put it aside to go riding. My fear right now is that I'm losing my ability to do that, and I don't want to chance wrecking another bike (or worse, wrecking myself) to find out whether or not I'm right.

Sounds kinda stupid when I see it written out, but that's how it is. At least right now.

Totally concur with all that's been said. I have never crashed, but between 1977 and 1990, I sure did a lot of long tours (more than 400,000 km on three different bikes). I got out of bikes in 1990 after our first daughter was born - and I must admit that I hardly missed it. She got married in Sept. 2015 and literally within a couple of weeks, the bike bug bite again - hard! By early Nov. 2015, I had done my research and found a nice 2007 ST, and I haven't looked back since.

Interestingly, when the bug bit, I was chiefly interested in a Gold Wing and was totally unaware of the ST1100 or 1300 - in fact, I don't think that I had ever even seen one. A buddy asked me what bike I had in my earlier riding career and when I answered "a '79 Suzuki GS850 with a Hannigan Sport Tourer fairing" - he immediately said: "Oh, you want a Honda ST - that's the closest modern equivalent" - and he was dead-nuts right.

Anyhow, for me, right now, this great fun and while we have had about 6 riders killed in our area lately (the worst year in decades so far), I feel safe and am having a ball with it. Some of those riders were young twits on crotch-rockets but several were older folks on Harleys. One suspects that they were either new riders or people returning to bikes like me. In each case, the circumstances indicated a lack of adequate defensiveness on the part of the bikers - despite the fact that in most cases, the actual crash was caused by the car driver. Being right and dead is not a good option.

Perhaps I am rationalizing, but after a lifetime of working very hard long hours, I want to have some fun - and I am.

Cheers all,

Pete

I have a little different angle on the crash business. Back in the 60's I was in a F-105 trying a new maneuver called a "pop up". You came by a target at a good clip - 500 knots or so, pulled up hard, climbed a bit, and rolled over the top inverted into a dive attack. As soon as I started the dive I knew I was too steep and too slow. The bird went into the trees at close to 500 kCAS, did a lot of damage but I got home and landed. It was plain and simple a pilot error crash - the bird was working perfect and I crashed it. It damaged my self confidence for quite a while but I stayed with things and came out of it in good shape. I am now 80-years old and a lot of people tell me it is time to get rid of the ST but with years of experience, I know I don't dare quit. I would say you need to quit riding on your terms and not because you are intimidated by a couple of crashes. Ride the bike until you are again comfortable and then start thinking of "taking the last ride". It is like fighter aircraft -- there are guys who step to the bird knowing it is their last flight and there are guys who step to the bird NOT knowing it is their last flight. You want it to be your choice to make the last flight.

I am 66 and have been riding nearly 53 years. In that time I have managed to put nearly 500,000 miles on the odometer(s) and am pretty close to 100,000 on my ST. Have been hit twice; once by a pickup truck and next by a Lincoln Town Car. The second one hurt me bad enough to put me into an ambulance for a ride to hospital and later for shoulder surgery. Ninety minutes after my lawyer called me and said my settlement check had arrived I was at the Honda dealer for the new bike. Didn't have a second thought about it and certainly have enjoyed the ST.

Would I get back on tomorrow if hit again today? I don't know. I have been coping with some serious health issues and, like you are facing family issues, it could be the best thing would be to find something else to occupy me. BUT, especially in light of my prognosis, I can't imagine NOT getting back on a bike and riding as long as I am physically and mentally capable. I'm not 80 like Thunderchief, and I new flew a Thud, but FAA wouldn't even consider renewing my medical certificate now and riding through a stretch of twisty roads in the mountains is the closest thing I get to flying now.

You probably have figured out that it is more an attitude thing than anything else. If riding turns your crank - go for it. If you have to sit and ponder which is best for you - find something else to amuse yourself. If you are not completely into riding you are another accident waiting to happen - and the next time you might hurt yourself or your pillion.

If you're not confident that you could restrict your riding to times to when you won't be distracted (or you're just too distracted anyway), you should probably at least take a good long break. Things can change over time. You might find a new hobby more interesting. Riding is definitely not a safe hobby. The FZ6 and I got slammed onto the road (low side) by a diesel spill once. I quickly fixed the bike and road in my bandages (got "that look" from the wife). I would give up riding, if I could, but I'm too addicted. Sounds like you would be fine without it but only you know you. Good luck on the decision.

sleepngbear said:

Just for the guys who have laid it down or crashed -- I'm wondering how many got right back on and how many ... didn't.

I've been riding for about 30 years. I had one accident on the bike that wasn't my fault about 13 years ago. Messed up my ST1300, but I got right back on as soon as it was fixed. Now I've just laid down my CTX for the second time in less than a year, this last time totaling it. Both times were my own fault, and luckily no one else was involved. I always ride geared up, so both times I was lucky enough to escape with minor scrapes and bruises.

The last time, back in October, I couldn't wait to get the bike back to get back on, even though confidence took a little hit. This time, though, as soon as it happened, I was actually hoping it was totaled because I really felt like I didn't want to ride any more. Now it's almost two weeks after the crash, two days after I agreed with insurance to total it, and I still have zero desire to replace it. The CTX1300 was the nicest bike I've ever owned, and hands-down my favorite. I could even get a new one now for less than I paid for that one. But the desire seems to be gone. I don't want another CTX, and there's absolutely nothing else out there creating even a hint of an itch. I'm also not a kid any more; at 58, that concern is now stronger than ever that the law of averages will catch up and the next time I might not be so lucky. And with two lay-downs causing pretty serious damage in such a short time, I'm of course feeling like it's a sure thing that there will be a next time.

I enjoyed riding, but I'm hardly what you could call hard-core, averaging maybe 3000 bike miles a year these last few years. But I've always had one in the garage since that first one, usually going out with a buddy for a day ride at least every couple of weeks. But right now, I just don't care if I ever ride again.

I know there's a lot of serious riders on this board, which means there are surely a few who've had some similar unfortunate incidents. I'm just wondering how many just took it in stride and kept going, how many it scared the bajeezus out of but got back in the saddle eventually, and how many just lost interest and hung it up. Basically trying to figure out if this apathy will pass or not.

Thanks for bearing with my rambling.

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I read through your question twice before I even contemplated an answer.

Your question was about how many got back on the iron horse after a mishap. The rest was background info about your current frame of mind.
To answer your question, I got back on immediately after totaling a 2003 ST1300. The desire was still there so I am back in the saddle.

For the rest of your post...

sleepngbear said:

I've been riding for about 30 years. I had one accident on the bike that wasn't my fault about 13 years ago. Messed up my ST1300, but I got right back on as soon as it was fixed. Now I've just laid down my CTX for the second time in less than a year, this last time totaling it. Both times were my own fault, and luckily no one else was involved. I always ride geared up, so both times I was lucky enough to escape with minor scrapes and bruises ... I'm of course feeling like it's a sure thing that there will be a next time.

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You know the old saying, "It's not if you will go down, but when." There is a very good possibility that it WILL happen again. This is something only you can deal with. Whether you ride with full gear to minimize any injuries or give up riding altogether, still analyze what happened (since you say it was your fault). Could you takes steps to avoid it in the future? Was it something that resulted from diminished riding skills? Use it to improve your skillset or teach anyone you know that rides about what can happen. Either way, turn the incident into something positive whether you return to riding or not.

sleepngbear said:

I enjoyed riding, but I'm hardly what you could call hard-core, averaging maybe 3000 bike miles a year these last few years. But I've always had one in the garage since that first one, usually going out with a buddy for a day ride at least every couple of weeks. But right now, I just don't care if I ever ride again.

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Being that you are posting from Rhode Island. That gives you at best a 120 miles/week on the bike. Maybe you are still suffering from the accident 'hangover' that has limited your miles "these last few years." How many miles did you ride before the two recent accidents. Maybe it is time to hang it up. Time will tell. And only you can make that decision for you. My only advice to you is that you be fully engaged in this pastime for safety's sake. Your heart and your mind must be fully committed to it.

I've had one crash. I lost my first ST and was kept off a bike for longer than I liked. I got a new ST long before I could ride again. Doctors and nurses recommended I quit. They're jaded and I understand. But they don't ride and they don't understand.

I'm not hard core or hot-shoe and probably ride a little more than you. Even so I love being on a bike. We've got a trip planned for Hoover Dam in a couple of months and I still need to work on my leg to be in better shape. I've had several short rides but no 6-7 hour days like we've done in the past.

I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't ride. One day that could change and I put it on the center stand for the last time. It's not about speed or distance but just the sheer joy of being on two wheels. Don't much care for traffic. The stop and go gets old quickly.

Getting back on was a relief. My big concern was that it wouldn't feel the same. I'll probably have to modify my mount/dismount because the standard left-side on/off is tough on my leg. But once the bike is moving I'm a happy man. It feels good. It feels right.

The desire to ride is a flame that burns differently in all of us hotter for some than others. Yours seems to have been extinguished. It probably won't rekindle on its own. You'd have to fan it. 58 is young and you have plenty of time. I think there are two main reasons to ride: because you have to or because you want to. You neither have or want to. You admit to a confidence problem. You don't care for the CTX or anything else.

Based on your lack of desire to ride and interest in any bike and no need to ride I'd say your apathy won't pass. Or it will turn to resignation. If you're to ride again you'll have to boot it. Given your current feelings I think that very unlikely. Not that it's a bad thing. If you have no desire no urge there's really no reason to ride again. You know riding is a risk. Like many of us maybe you didn't ride for the risk but in spite of it. If the flame is out and desire gone taking a time out however long is probably best. If it ends up being permanent so be it.

If you wanted to ride but were concerned about risk there are a lot of things you could do to improve your skills assuming they were even at issue. But you shouldn't bother unless it's what you want. So then put it behind you. Move on to wherever interests take you. One day you may miss it and get the urge to ride again. Or not.

Do what makes you happy. Don't consider riding again if it won't bring you joy. Be well.

</myramble>

My only major accident was a deer sprinting from the woods onto the roadway, totaled my ST1100. Accident timing was bad, my wife's brother had just been killed a few weeks earlier while on a bicycle ride, a truck ran him over from behind. My wife asked me to stop riding until the kids were a bit older. As I was pretty beat up physically I agreed. It took three years to get both me and my wife comfortable enough to replace the bike.
I'm not going to lie, I'm still very paranoid about deer because I have no control over what they do and can't predict when one might jump out from the trees, but becoming less so over time.

Al Gully said:

If your everything on the right side of the page, I'd purchase another bike and all is good. If you favor most of the actions on the left side of the page, I'd recommend hanging up your helmet.
Just my 2 cents

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Interesting table Al, thanks for posting it. I'm on the left side for most of those categories, and I've lost count of how many times I've crashed, I'd guess about 12 or 13 over the last 35 years. So that correlates with the table pretty well. Most of my crashes were in my youth, when UJM parts were cheap, and repairs were easy, so it was no big deal. I've only crashed 3 times in the last 20-25 years, one wasn't my fault, a pickup pulled out in front of me.

Regarding the question about getting right back on, I've ridden the bike home from every one of those crashes, including one where I broke my collarbone. That one wasn't when I was young and reckless, it was one of those last 3, when I was in my early 50s, so I guess I still haven't grown up yet. It was also on a sportbike, which I rode much more aggressively than I ride my ST. So now everyone can put me on their "don't ride with that guy" list, but actually I haven't crashed my ST ever, (in 19 years of ownership and 100k+ miles) because I ride it much more conservatively than all my other bikes.

I'm 67 and have had my bike license for 51 years and notice not much interest in riding. I'm down to my KLR650 which ride once in a while, although the sports cars attract me far more. Law of averages and simply the luck of the draw were my reason for selling the ST as simply was going to die if riding it like I needed to to enjoy. Most of my friends no longer ride because they can no longer ride at a pace which is fun and that means little reason to ride. I somewhat envy those who just like the wind, but spent too many long rides wishing I wasn't riding with the slow pokes so......

I did notice the "laid it down" line in the OP. Why can't people just admit that they fell from loss of control rather than trying a "loud pipes save lives" type fallacy to explain why they did something? Makes me need a third hand to face palm.

My last crash was way back in the summer of 1979. I had been married about a month when a dog enter my lane. I was in a long sweeping curve to the left and I did not have much of a chance one way or the other. A 100 foot drop off to the right side and the dog coming from the right before the drop off. I clipped the dog and caught the wet grass at the edge of the pavement. I hit hard two times and managed to regain control in and up right position before the drop off just feet away. The only loses where 2 saddle bags and the leather toes that where missing from my steel toe boots.
I had to rethink riding and it took years before I got back into riding. Sold my bike because of the mother in law. Back in those day insurance for bikes could be hard to get and she was the under writer for the insurance company. Good gear was a 3/4 helmet and gloves. Leather for me was unaffordable. Rider training was a bicycle.
I was lucky. So when I got back into riding I decided that I needed to change and be different in every way. First was my attitude toward riding. Safety first. Then I needed to improve my skills. Then the gear for if and when I have a mental failure. Most motorcycle crash are the fault of the rider, speed, not paying attention, not paying attention to everyone else and get to close to cages.
The dog lived to get into traffic another day and I went home with a bruised ego. But that is not what usually happens in a crash. For the rider in a crash it is never simple. So take your time before you get back to riding if you think you may not be ready. For me I love riding to much at this point in my life, and I am still trying to chase down those miles I did not get to ride years ago.

Norm said:

Why can't people just admit that they fell from loss of control rather than trying a "loud pipes save lives" type fallacy to explain why they did something? Makes me need a third hand to face palm.

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LOL! :lol:
Well put Mr. Keller ;-)
Like weekend-warrior stories at the pub about why they'd crashed their crutch-rockets (again!): gravel, oil spill, stupid road layout, other idiot drivers, etc... :roll:
(and advanced apologies to anyone who'd hurt or bruised himself... no offence intended, this is meant as constructive debate...)

Paul st1300 said:

If you know what caused the crash, can you change your behavior. If it is your riding skills, work on your riding skills.
<snip>
Safety first. Everyone needs to refresh there skills and check there ride attitude to make sure they are ready to ride.

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Also very true...

So here's my coming out...
Started riding on ST1100 in '92, attended safety trainings, clocked up incident free miles till '96, when I violently low-side/rear-ended the last car of a stopped queue, with enough kinetic energy remaining to hurl the ST and me another 60~70ft out into the field... leaving the car totalled, the '92 ST in bad shape... and me, well... :-?
While hospitalized my mechanic friend picked the wreck up at the fire-fighters (who'd recovered it from the scene) and stored it in his barn.

Once I was a bit mobile again, I got out there and he just threw tools at me, grunting: "...you broke it, you fix it... this will teach you..."
So there I was, left foot in a cast and wearing an aluminium frame back-brace (looking like the bionic-man) staggering around between wreckage parts covering the entire floor of his barn... looked like an NTSB investigation...
Taking the bike apart bit by bit, inventorying what was salvageable and what to scrap gave time to analyse what had lead to this mess...

Even while the car I'd crashed into had no brake lights or hazards on, nor did the farm tractor coming out the field access, forcing the traffic to a sudden stop, had its amber rotating light on, it was me having lost the overview of the scene ahead, thus the core causes where simple:
a) being on a familiar road (on my way to mentioned friend, like a hundred times before), inviting the mind to fall into "auto-pilot" mood...
b) brain fogged with recent escalating relationship crap, causing enough distraction to get incapable to deal with the unexpected(?) situation ahead...

Lessons taken from that:
- don't think and drive
- be extra cautions on familiar roads
- no girl on this planet is worth wrecking an ST over, period...

3 months later the ST was top notch fixed and back on the road again, with me on it, still pretty sore...
I do observe (also) my mental state closer now and consciously fade out problem-thoughts while on the road...
Maintaining increased situation awareness, frequently attending safety trainings, reading riding books, etc...
20 years/200.000km later the compression-fractured #1 lumbar and other parts are still causing trouble... lifetime reminder on stupidity ;-)

Motorcycling is a state of mind. If you're not in the right state of mind to be on a bike don't get on until you are. You need to give your riding 100% concentration.

To me, my motorcycle IS my therapist and chiropractor. The commute to and from work sorts my mind out beautifully (usually by the time I get to the road ) and, if I need to clear my mind, a bike ride does the trick wonderfully. If I don't ride for a week or so, I have movement problems due to my back.

Those are my reasons for riding. What are yours? Once you find them, you'll ride.


I have highish blood pressure but, if you take my blood pressure reading just after I've ridden through Paris, it's normal and that's after lane splitting, filtering and fighting with the traffic.

Forgot to mention that I've had 2 highsides in 33 years of riding both caused by slippery road surfaces...