Why use a lithium battery tender when the bike does not charge that way?

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Stock batteries for the ST1300 were all lead acid type that I ever heard. The lithium battery craze started after the ST1300 was designed. Being an electrician and having read and understand how the lithium batteries are different, what is the point or what is to be gained when the charging system on the bike was not made for the lithium batteries. I know the ignition should be off when using the lithium rated tender. What about while you are riding? Why isn't that just as bad as using a regular tender any other time? Just one of those crazy questions when common sense may not be as common as the real reason.
 

SupraSabre

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I'm not a electrician, have no idea why things work or don't or shouldn't, but I know what works!

I've had the same lithium battery for several years. It has been in two of my ST1300s. In the first, that bike is sitting in my shed with a bad waterpump. The bike had sat for a year and I let the battery get drained pretty bad. I charged the battery with the special charger (twice for it to take the charge) and then put it in my commuter bike. At this point, it's still running just fine. That was maybe 6 months ago.
 

Gerhard

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From what I understand as long as the charger is not in a desulphating mode it is fine for the lithium battery. What the lithium battery chargers do is balance the individual cells and have a maintain mode where they actually reduce the batteries charge to 75%, apparently both these things are good for the longevity of the lithium battery.

I have a Shorai battery in my bike for the second year now and it has never had one of those slow cranks that I would occasionally get with the original battery and in the third year it was frequently.

Gerhard
 

wjbertrand

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Some lithium batteries I see advertise they have a built-in charge balancing / optimizing system. I assume for those batteries, a special charger is not required?
 
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Maybe I failed to ask my question correctly. What I am asking is why the need of a different charger since the bike itself does not have anything in the charging system related to or different to accommodate the lithium battery? I am looking for an electrical explanation.
 

Byron

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Maybe I failed to ask my question correctly. What I am asking is why the need of a different charger since the bike itself does not have anything in the charging system related to or different to accommodate the lithium battery? I am looking for an electrical explanation.
I have several CTEK Multi US 4.3 chargers. They have the ability to de-sulfate the plates inside a lead acid or AGM battery. They do this by upping the charging charge in pulses. This type of charging will damage a lithium type battery. Now if I remembered to not use that mode on my Lithium Iron batteries there wouldn't be a problem that I am aware of. However, if I forgot bye bye battery at minimum. It was easier to just pick up lithium battery charger to use with them. I switched to lithium because it was 2/3 the cost of a Yuasa battery. I didn't do it for the weight or size because the size actually caused a little more work to get mounted. Now I've got a really old Detran Battery Tender that I could use on a lithium battery without worrying but technology keeps getting better. Even if Honda doesn't want to provide it doesn't mean I can't add it myself.
 
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Maybe I failed to ask my question correctly. What I am asking is why the need of a different charger since the bike itself does not have anything in the charging system related to or different to accommodate the lithium battery? I am looking for an electrical explanation.
The bottom line answer to your question is that different batteries with different chemistries require different charging modes.

I'm not sure I can give you the technical explanation you want. Automotive charging systems simply put a higher voltage across the batter terminals and the battery's chemistry stores the energy. This constant voltage (well, it will vary somewhat due to loads and engine speed) is relatively benign - it will not break down lead sulphate on the plates, and it does not do a complete job of charging the battery.

So called smart chargers for lead acid batteries not only provide the constant charging voltage, but then decrease the voltage to top off the battery (there is also an equalizing stage in which, I believe, the charger drops the voltage even more to allow the battery to stabilize). Old fashioned trickle chargers, which simply charged at a lower current would eventually overcharge a lead acid battery and destroy it - or at least cause electrolyte loss by dissociation. This is essentially what the car or bike's charging system would do if you drove it 24/7 - though you might not have that problem with modern maintenance free batteries.

Somewhere along the line, these smart chargers for lead acid batteries gained a desulphating stage in which the charger sends pulses of higher voltage (than the normal c. 14 v charging mode) to the battery. This breaks down the lead sulphate that might have formed on the battery's plates. This pulsed voltage will kill a lithium battery - or make it very unhappy.

In normal every day use most guys don't use a LIFe battery tender - it shouldn't be needed. And as stated above by other posters, these special chargers have circuitry to equalize the cells, prevent over charging, and maintain the battery in peak condition. This is not done by your bike's charging system.

I suspect the real answer to your question will be found elsewhere on the web in battery manufacturer's websites and technical discussions about battery chemistry and their charging requirements.
 

SteveST1300

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I use the Shorai charger because it has a storage mode which I use in the winter or if I am not going to be riding for an extended period. I have also used a regular trickle charger on my shorai and it worked just fine. It just doesn't have the storage mode.
 
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I bought the Li-Ion for weight reduction and higher cranking performance.
I am on my second Shorai battery now. First one lasted 5 years (twice as long as previous Lead Acids). The first one died after I had not charged it for several months, my mistake really..
shortly after buying the first battery, I ordered the dedicated Shorai Charger. It worked for a while, but after a while, the battery degraded somehow and the charge via the battery management (Cell balancing) did not work any more. I used a normal trickle charger for lead acid without any further issue.

When I installed the 2nd Shorai, I immediately switched back to the Shorai dedicated charger using the BMS connection to trickle charge. This worked perfectly for a couple of months, but the charger died when I tried to go from storage mode to charge mode.
Have to say I am quite pleased with the battery, but the charger is too sensitive for my taste. For such an expensive product, it should be able to charge the battery reliably and last a lifetime.. I am now back to my lead-acid trickle charger. Battery itself is working great.
 

T_C

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The key difference between a Lead-Acid and Lithium Ferrite battery pack is the equalizing. The individual cells on a lead acid (or NiCd, NiMh, FYI) will pass power along once they max out there individual charge on each cell. So the battery pack will self equalize all the cells itself with a slow trickle charge. (Kepp up a heavy current while one of the packs is trying to bring all the cells up to max charge and they will boil off the excess power, or vent itself in NiCd, NiMh).

Lithium batteries (LiIon, LiPo, LiFe) will not do this. Once an individual cell gets a full charge it will quit passing current, they will not self equalize. This is what a dedicated lithium charger does and why it has the multi pin secondary connection cable. Brings up each one individually.
 

SteveST1300

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Maybe I failed to ask my question correctly. What I am asking is why the need of a different charger since the bike itself does not have anything in the charging system related to or different to accommodate the lithium battery? I am looking for an electrical explanation.
As was already said you do not need a special charger only one that does not have a desulphating mode. I believe the battery charges the same way a lead acid charges. The only difference with the Shorai and its that it has a storage mode which brings the battery's voltage down to 75-80% and holds it there. Other than that a battery charger is a battery charger, Im not sure what other circuitry is involved with the shorai charger but I use it regularly and it keeps my battery in good shape.
 
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