Lithium Batteries?

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On my 2nd in my 07, the first wouldn't hold a charge after sitting for months, I got it from Advance Auto(only battery they had when the ST charging system went TU) They warranted it out for the one I am running now, so far no issues, but, I am looking for a Lithium specific tender.
 

T_C

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If the lithium tender does not have a multi pin (more then 2) plug that you plug into the battery somewhere, don't buy it. A true lithium charger has to monitor each individual bank of cells. For the typical 12v replacement pack you would nbeed a 5 pin connector and it may or may not also have the primary 2pin charge connector.

Otherwise, just buy a Battery tender Jr, or equivalent (not the full Battery Tender, it'll overcharge with it's de-sulphation mode).
 

Mark

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So instead I bought 8 38120 LiFe cells and built a case from some 1/8" ABS I had leftover from my boomerang making days. Added on a BMS/protection circuit outboard and called it good. I ended up with a 20 amp/hr package.
How big is the unit/battery?
 

T_C

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How big is the unit/battery?
Footprint is aboutthe same as the OEM battery, height is much taller. I had to ditch the factory holddown for the batetry and came up with a new system.
The BMS/protection circuit is in a separate case and sits a little more towards the tail. I did have to cut a notch out of a frame piece. Yes.. I know I voided the warranty. ;)

Cubic inch for cubic centimeter, LiFe batteries are about the same as lead-acid (for equivalent voltage and amperage (storage) capacity).
Weight wise, LiFe are less then half as much (for equivalent voltage and amperage (storage) capacity).
Cycle life.. ain't no comparison. Thousands of deep-cycles on a LiFe with minimal loss (less then 10%) of capacity. Do a handful of those to a starter type lead-acid and kiss it goodbye.
 
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If the lithium tender does not have a multi pin (more then 2) plug that you plug into the battery somewhere, don't buy it. A true lithium charger has to monitor each individual bank of cells. For the typical 12v replacement pack you would nbeed a 5 pin connector and it may or may not also have the primary 2pin charge connector.

Otherwise, just buy a Battery tender Jr, or equivalent (not the full Battery Tender, it'll overcharge with it's de


It depends on the battery. And the tender. I have been using this, for a year:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N5UBQHS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

On these:

ST1300
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DCXIJJG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ducati
https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/sstx12b-fp.html

Both bikes have parasitic loads from the clock and ECU. I keep the tender on them continuously if not being ridden. Never a problem.
 

T_C

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It depends on the battery. And the tender. I have been using this, for a year:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
If you advertise it they will come!! You are being a little nicer by limiting the voltage a little lower. But since the bike alternator will still be running the same voltage, charging to the same voltage, you you are really not gaining much.

Lithium packs will not balance by just keeping a float voltage on them; nature of the beast and nothing you advertise will change that. Lead-acid, NiMh, NiCd will, no lithium's (any type of lithium under current formulas) do. You could put a shunt circuit on each cell and it'll pass some power when the cell is topped off, but none of the motorcycle packs I have ever seen do this.

Charging and balancing are two separate things. If a pack was constructed with very closely matching cells to begin with you will not need to balance very often.
But eventually... time takes it's toll... one of the cells will be getting less charged and will make it appear the battery has lost it's total capacity.
 
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ST Gui

240Robert
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If you advertise it they will come!!
A little harsh doncha think?


T_C; said:
You are being a little nicer by limiting the voltage a little lower. But since the bike alternator will still be running the same voltage, charging to the same voltage, you you are really not gaining much.
That's probably true for somebody who rides a lot year round. But I'd think there is a considerable difference between keeping a battery on a tender for an extended period of time (winter) and riding the bike for hours at a time the issue of Li and float charge notwithstanding.

So— do all LiFePOS batteries have a multi-pin port/connector for cell balancing charger/tenders? I've missed any mention this when talking about Li batteries or a charger that supports this- only chargers that don't have a de-sulphation cycle.
 

T_C

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A little harsh doncha think?
Umm.. yeah if taken as directed at a person, not what I intended. Sorry if I offend. Just meant in general, calling it snake oil.
Keeping a LiFe on a tender is making a problem that does not exist. Just unhook the battery if not riding for awhile. The internal (self) discharge is very low compared to Pb. Just unhook the battery. Li batteries that have an internal balance circuit might run down a little, but will still have enough energy to last the winter. Don't take it out of the bike, leave it out in the cold. When the weather warms, hook it up and she'll fire.


do all LiFePOS batteries have a multi-pin port/connector for cell balancing charger/tenders?
No, most do not. I think the Shorai does and that's what their special charger hooks into. If you have one that does not and you are out of warranty, crack the case and add one. Your battery will last many, many more years. My normal charger for the collection of batteries is an RC hobby charger. It does every chemistry type (not the new LTO) and I can program it for a multitude of uses. Charge, discharge, balance, cycle all at different voltages and rates. Think it cost me about $50.
 

ST Gui

240Robert
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The internal (self) discharge is very low compared to Pb. Just unhook the battery.
I did not know this.


T_C said:
I think the Shorai does and that's what their special charger hooks into. If you have one that does not and you are out of warranty, crack the case and add one.
I'm on the original (?) battery. Or maybe they put a new one in when I bought the bike. But I'm thinking of trying an LiFePOS battery when the time comes and like the idea of balancing the cells.
 

T_C

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I'd buy one of the popular models and run it for a few years. Let the warranty expire then crack the case and put in a 5 pin connector. There are some passive balance units that will balance the cells via discharge only. Let the bike top off the battery when you ride it, once every few months plug up the balance circuit.

I like the EarthX with balance and full management (over discharge protection) but the price is a little too steep.
 
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Just an update.
My Shorai (LFX18A1-BS12) is still going strong at 5 years old. :D

Just an another update : 2/22/2019
I put in the Shorai lithium battery Dec 12, 2012 @ 31,000 miles, it performs so well I forget its there.
It is 6 yrs, 2 mnths old. My bike now has 66,000 miles. It still cranks & starts fine.
I bought the Shorai battery LFX18A1-BS12 , weight 2.2 lbs . :)
 
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