New member needs ABS system assistance

Blrfl

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Ok Mark, your on deck :rofl1:
My parts arrive to him today, but he is still getting ONE long blink, followed by ELEVEN short blinks.
He said he has checked ALL fuses and connectors and has found no corrosion or damage.
What would you suggest next?
Have the stored codes been cleared? (See post 18.) Unlike the ECM, once the ABS computer sees something, it doesn't let go of it until you flush it out.

Check for metal shavings on the tone wheel and sensor.
Install the wheel, axle and stopper bolt.
Check that the tone wheel is aligned laterally with the sensor (should be if the wheel is on properly).
Check the clearance between the sensor and the tone wheel (0.7-1.2 mm or 0.03-0.05")
Clear the codes stored in the ABS computer.
Start, ride, see what it does.

--Mark
 
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Thanks for taking the time to respond Mark.
He called me this morning and told me that the light is still blinking after and during his ride.
I talked him through the code retrieval and code clearing procedure (your link) two or three times over the phone while he did it.
He said when he took it for a ride the light was still blinking, however, it was starting and stopping, during his ride.
He told me that he checked the sensor for debris and wiped both off, and said he has the correct gap as well.
I instructed him to contact you for further information, since you appear to have the most knowledge on this.
He may respond on this thread, or the "help my brakes stop braking" post.
Thanks again.
 
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The code was one long flash...and eleven short flashes. Igofar helped by phone as we took out the front and rear
fuses...turned key on, abs light came on, then went off...before 3 seconds was up we put in first fuse...then when code started blinking, we put in second fuse. Turned key off...then on...and yup, still flashing. I rode it several mile, but still same thing. Hmmmm.
 
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Have the stored codes been cleared? (See post 18.) Unlike the ECM, once the ABS computer sees something, it doesn't let go of it until you flush it out.

Check for metal shavings on the tone wheel and sensor.
Install the wheel, axle and stopper bolt.
Check that the tone wheel is aligned laterally with the sensor (should be if the wheel is on properly).
Check the clearance between the sensor and the tone wheel (0.7-1.2 mm or 0.03-0.05")
Clear the codes stored in the ABS computer.
Start, ride, see what it does.

--Mark
......I'll check post 18...I'll also need to check the exact clearance on the sensors...they shouldn't have changed from when I took it in...before it started flashing...u wouldn't think.
 
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Now we're getting somewhere. First get your axle and stopper bolt squared away since you'll need to ride the bike enough to do the pre-start diagnosis.

Code 11 is the rear relay circuit, which indicates something amiss in the modulator fuse (marked H on the fuse block), control motor, crank angle sensor, wire harness or the ABS computer.

Page 18-25 in the ST Songbook says:
  • Clear the stored code using the procedure I linked to in my last comment and ride the bike to see if fault goes away. If it does, the shop probably reconnected whatever they disconnected and neglected to tell the ABS computer. I'm going to assume you and Larry have been over making sure all of the connectors are plugged in and clean.
  • Ride the bike enough to make the ABS light go out (i.e., get it up to 6 MPH). The manual says if the indicator doesn't blink, there is fine foreign matter in the modulator or a fault in the wheel speed sensor connection.
  • Retrieve and clear the problem code. If it's anything other that 11, something else is wrong.
  • If it is 11, swap the modulators, fill and bleed the system and repeat this procedure. If the problem code changes to 10, the rear modulator (which would now be on the front) is faulty. If it doesn't, it's either the wiring, connectors
--Mark
Mark...help me with the modulators...i
tried switching them...if it's the black plug and the gray plug. One had a two pron plug and the other a three, and would not swap. Thanks
 

Blrfl

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I've re-read the other thread and this one, and the best word I can come up with for the situation is "yecch." :)

I'm going to let Larry be the point man on the hydraulic end. Sounds like he's got you properly flushed, filled and bled and that other than the ABS problem, your brakes work fine. The hydraulic and ABS parts don't intersect anywhere other than the cylinder in the modulator, so the state of one has nothing to do with the other. If Larry's confident that the hydraulics are good, your bike is safe to ride. I'd pull the main ABS fuse ("A" in the fuse block) while you're not doing diagnosis/testing so the system stays off and head to a parking lot to learn where the wheels lock up under hard braking.

At this point, because we don't know what was done to the bike, everything has to be treated as suspect. I know some of this has been covered before, but we're going to go over the entire ABS system with a fine-toothed comb from square one.

Because I can't be close by, I'm going to ask you to do things with the bike and observe what happens. When you reply, I need to know everything that was done and what happened in excruciating detail, especially what the ABS indicator does and when.

The first thing I'm going to do is consult with someone who has a post-2008 service manual to make sure the diagnostics haven't changed. (Anybody reading this want to volunteer?)

The first thing you're gong to do is the pre-start diagnostics:

  • Retrieve the stored fault codes. (What were they, if any?)
  • Clear the stored fault codes.
  • Retrieve the stored fault codes. (Yes, do it again. Should be none, a repeating two-second-on/two-second-off pattern.)
  • Put the bike on the sidestand.
  • Turn on the ignition. (What does the ABS light do?)
  • Start the engine and let it warm up.
  • Began rolling faster than 6 mph. (What does the ABS light do?)
  • Ride awhile. (What does the ABS light do?)

--Mark
 

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Igofar,
Did the ST1300 change types of tone wheels around '08? The reason I ask is the one on Goldwings changed from a cast iron tooth style, to a stamped steel type with holes punched. The different tone wheels take different sensors. I found that out while changing final drives on my Wing. Perhaps a sensor was changed out, to an improper one.

John
 
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That's a very good point John, my 07 has the cast ring, and IIRC the 09 and later have the new style. I had to replace my front ring due to a crack caused by a dealership dropping wheel on side when replacing tire. I am going to call Stan and ask him to inspect both tone rings for damage.
Maybe he can scan and attach his work order for us to help make sense of what they did.
I have not assisted him bleeding the system yet....he said the shop said they did it...which as Mark said, suspect now.
I have asked him to order a MP tool and will either help him eliminate that from the problem next week or ask him to see Vinny......tag your it :rofl1:
 
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Thanks Mellow, I'm going to check the part numbers for the magnets and see if they could have put in the wrong one.
Larry
 
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Update: After texting photo's back and forth, and checking line by line in the service manual, I may have found the problem (fingers crossed)
The rear wheel sensor in the 2003-2008 service manual clearly shows and states that a SHIM belongs on the rear sensor....which by the way, is missing on Stan's (per photo)
What do ya think? Could THIS be the cause of the light issue?
 

Blrfl

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The rear wheel sensor in the 2003-2008 service manual clearly shows and states that a SHIM belongs on the rear sensor....which by the way, is missing on Stan's (per photo)
What do ya think? Could THIS be the cause of the light issue?
Good eye, Larry. If you go back a page or two in the manual, they say that the clearance is adjusted by adding or removing the shim and that there should be zero or one on the bike. If the clearance was measured correctly and is in spec, that's probably not it. Having the clearance not quite right will have an effect on how the computer sees the tone wheel. If it's on the hairy edge in either direction, the computer's ability to read the wheel speed could change as the parts expand and contract. That would certainly explain the intermittent flashing.

On a related note, has the clearance and condition of the parts at the front been checked?

--Mark
 
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I'll throw in what I know - my experience with faulty ABS comes from the 1100AY, but checking through the ST1300 manual, some of that info seems to transfer.

1. The ABS sensors front and back are plugged into the harness. They could have disconnected the sensors. Front sensor seems to be the 2 pin grey connector in front of the ignition coil on the right hand side of the frame below the petrol tank. The rear sensor connector is also a 2 pin grey connector. Difficult to make out in the photo, but it appears to be located just above the point where the rear of the right hand tip-over guard is bolted onto the main silver alloy frame.

2. There are at least 3 ABS fuses to check. ABS Main, ABS Front, ABS Rear
View attachment 178046

3. On each modulator, front and rear, there are two connectors a black 2 pin and a grey 3 pin.

[Edit]
And of course, the main control units in the rear cowl.

Check the surfaces of the sensors. They are magnetic. I wonder if there is a stray bit of metal that is causing problems.
[/edit]
Am I blind? I've only found one modulator on the front right with the grey and black clips...where is # 2. And next...the gap for the sensor...mine is up in the attached holder that's on the shaft drive and cannot be raised or lowered...so is the gap form what the sensor is in the holder...or the holder to the teeth? Thanks....Again...Igofar realized last night they left off the rear shim for the sensor...so that may be the problem.
 

Blrfl

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Am I blind? I've only found one modulator on the front right with the grey and black clips...where is # 2.
The rear modulator is bolted to the frame just aft of the battery. The connectors are tucked in there with it, and you will need to remove the battery to get at it. If you haven't laid eyes on the rear modulator, all of the connections in the system haven't been checked and there's no reason to swap the two of them. You'd have to drain the system before doing this, so save it as a last resort.

And next...the gap for the sensor...mine is up in the attached holder that's on the shaft drive and cannot be raised or lowered...so is the gap form what the sensor is in the holder...or the holder to the teeth?
The gap is between the end of the sensor and the teeth. Measure it with feeler gauges. The clearance (rear only) is adjusted by adding or removing the shim, so it's possible your bike never had one to begin with.

....and the abs is working...it wouldn't lock up on the dry road or the part of the road with dry leaves on it...
So the pre-start diagnostic passes, no stored codes and no blinking light?

--Mark
 
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Still blinking light...but would not skid. I'll go check the rear modulator connections now. About the sensor, I could see the bottom of it up in the holder, not exactly flush...so that's why I was wondering g about the feeler gauge...it can only measure gap from holder to the teeth...leaving me to guess at how deep it is in the sensor. Are most sensors flush with the bottom? Thanks
 
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All is well and hooked up at the rear modulator. Igofar reminded me we had checked the connectors behind the smog unit. I was wrong about the sensors...they are pretty much flush...so if he did leave off the Shem, which would raise it up...maybe that's causing the light to flash. Went to the shop and ordered it Saturday morning. Axle nut and washer still not in....thankfully Igofar was kind enough to send me his spare. I guess I'll button it up and go for a ride. The tires are new so I want to get the chicken strips off them. I do enjoy riding this thing.
 
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Mark, here is a concern of mine....
If the Honda mechanic stated that he was unplugging and checking stuff..
In my Service Manual 2003-2008 on page 18-3, bullet #9 I believe, states the following:
The ABS control unit may be damaged if dropped. Also if a connector is disconnected when current is flowing, the excessive voltage may damage the ECU. Always turn off the ignition switch before servicing.
I am wondering if our mechanic left the key on to watch the light, and then toasted the ECU.
comments?
 

Blrfl

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I am wondering if our mechanic left the key on to watch the light, and then toasted the ECU.
Anything's a possibility, I suppose. Despite the caution, most hardware built for automotive applications isn't usually that fragile. I don't think I'd chase that down as a cause until everything else has been thoroughly checked out: connections, clearances, etc. That's where I am on this one.

--Mark
 
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