Need some inputs on my plan for a trip next year

I need some inputs on the trip my friends and I (5 of us so far) plan to make on the last weekend of June 2017. We dedicated 2 weeks for this trip.

This is the simplified route we plane to take:

• Des Moines, IA
• Great Sand Dunes National Park, CO
• Mesa Verde National Park, CO
• Monument Valley Navajo Tribal Park Visitor Center, AZ
• Navajo National Monument, AZ
• Horseshoe Bend, AZ
• Zion National Park / Springdale, UT
• Hoover Dam, NE
• Las Vegas, NE
• Death Valley Visitor Center (Furnace Creek Visitor Center), NE
• Sacramento, CA via Yosemite National Park, CA
• San Francisco, CA (Battery Spencer, Fort Point)
• Pacific Highway/California State Route 1 to Los Angeles, CA
• Santa Monica Pier, CA
• Route 66 toward East
• Des Moines, IA

These are kinda major stops we plan to make. Probably tons of other, smaller ones.

So, my "concerns" are:

1. On such a journey, does it usually take more stops than planned? Do you spend more time sightseeing than planned?
2. There's an possibility that our wives go with us but in a mini-van. None of them are capable to ride all the time. Pro: we can make our bikes lighter by putting our stuff in the mini-van. Con: There's an additional "vehicle" to take care and most likely it's gonna slow us down a bit.
3. Any experience while riding with buddies where some prefer frugal and some don't?
4. If some of us want to go left route and some right route - is splitting an option?
5. Is this whole ride/trip maybe too much for the first time? We all did several 3-4 days trips/rides, with 1K-2K miles. But nobody 7 days or more.
6. What's the average daily mileage you did on 2-week trips?

Thanks for any help.

BTW, we never rode together, ever. But three of us rode to South Dakota, three (w/o me) rode to Ozarks...
Also, we decided to NOT ride on Interstate.

The more people in the group, the more "problems" you will have. Some people like to stop to smell every rose along the way, others prefer to never stop unless it is for food or gas. I've travelled with one friend on a couple of occasions and even that has proved difficult, as he is a very picky eater and finding a place to eat wasn't easy.

If you plan each day's destination ahead of time, then it matters not if some want to take another route, or if the wifey van is slower, as long as everyone arrives at the agreed upon location within a certain time at the end of the day. This is how tour companies generally operate. At the breakfast gathering, you are given a map for the day and told where you will be staying that night. You just have to show up.

I don't think you are overly ambitious with this planned ride. Two weeks should be plenty.

Everyone's daily mileage preference could be different, so you need to settle this with the group before you leave. Someone with a Russell Day Long seat may be able to do 800 miles in a day. Others with less comfort, or less weather protection than the 1100 affords, on a nasty day, may only want to do 250.

Spending two weeks with the same people will uncover some differences of opinions and habits, so be prepared to be very flexible, as all should be, so you are all still friends when you get home. Personally, I would never choose to do a road trip like this with more than one, possibly two, other riders, not counting the missus, of course.

I've planned a few long distance trips over the last few years. The best thing to do is map it out first, see how many miles things are, make changes where necessary. If you are planning on staying off the interstates, expect your days to be long. Riding highways is usually slower going. Dave's and my ride to WeSTOC was a 4,800 mile trip from my place and back to my place. We hit the Interstates (like I15 from Las Vegas to Idaho) so we could get where we wanted to get to. But we did what we could to find routes that would be interesting.

I bit concerned about riding on 100+F through Death Valley, NE and Route 66 through Texas & Arizona.

Have you estimated mileage? The proposed agenda sounds ambitious...

If we average 50 mph. on the two lanes, including gas stops but not including food or sightseeing, traveling alone but 2-up, I feel we're doing good. More Riders will slow the pace.

We always get on the Interstate to go through any large city we can't go around.

Try to come to some sort of agreement satisfactory to all as to the priority of destinations. If time or situation demand modification, the most desired destinations could still be in play. If Riders do wish to go different ways, make sure the evening's final stop is clear to everyone.

Good Ridin'
slmjim

Afan said:

We all did several 3-4 days trips/rides, with 1K-2K miles......BTW, we never rode together, ever. But three of us rode to South Dakota, three (w/o me) rode to Ozarks....

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Just my preference; but I'd never vacation with a group on a ride, that I'd never traveled with before. Between now and June is a long time to try a couple of weekenders with the group to feel them out. Plans easily change, people don't.

Afan said:

I bit concerned about riding on 100+F through Death Valley, NE and Route 66 through Texas & Arizona.

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You are correct about being concerned with hot weather in the southwest that time of year, I'd suggest you do a more northerly loop instead. Head west to the coast using a more northerly route, take the coast highway south, then head back home through UT/CO instead of the southerly route you originally planned through AZ/TX. Route 66 is mostly I-40 these days anyway, so it isn't really that interesting.

You mentioned several places in CA, just remember the entire central valley from Bakersfield to Redding is typically 105F, and boring as hell, so try not to spend much time there. And remember wherever you are, you're sharing with 37 million others trying to do the same things you are, so expect things to be crowded.

Do the LA to Vegas stretch very early in the morning to avoid the heat. As you get into UT the elevation climbs and its cooler, but still warm. Zion is a very nice NP, plan on spending some time there, but in the summer you have to take shuttle buses into the main valley part of the park, there are places you can't ride to because the roads are closed to the public (you can ride through the park on highway 9 though).

In general, you never make as good time as you plan by looking at maps, you'll always be a couple hours behind schedule each day. The more riders in the group, the more you'll fall behind schedule. Five riders is probably max for making any kind of efficient progress, although you may find that rambling along at a slower pace than originally planned is enjoyable as well. You will have long hours of daylight that time of year, so that helps if you need to ride later into the day to catch up to schedule.

All your other questions depend on the people in the group, you'll find out how compatible you are as the trip progresses, so be prepared to be flexible.

I'd seriously consider visiting Bryce Canyon since you'll be in the area. I find it much more 'interesting' than Zion. As far as the trip goes, you might read this -

http://www.unclephil.us/PlanningATrip.htm

And look at our trip out in the same general area -

http://www.unclephil.us/West2009Home.htm

Since you've never ridden all together as one group, you would be wise to plan a 1 or 2 day group ride with everybody (including the ladies in the van) somewhere (maybe to Mount Rushmore or something) just to make sure the 'chemistry' is going to work. Trust me, you don't want to be on a 2 week trip and find it is doesn't. Trips like this will bring out both the worst and the best in people and sometimes the worst can be more than your heart can stand. On the road is a tough place to have to try to sort out stuff when you have money and vacation time involved. A rough schedule should be laid out so that everybody can agree/disagree on it up front.

TPadden said:

Just my preference; but I'd never vacation with a group on a ride, that I'd never traveled with before. Between now and June is a long time to try a couple of weekenders with the group to feel them out. Plans easily change, people don't.

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That was our plan for this year and it never happened. There is always somebody that can't do it. I hope for next year, before we leave but I'm not sure...
But totally agree with you, it's kind a "gambling"...

dwalby said:

... Route 66 is mostly I-40 these days anyway, so it isn't really that interesting...

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You just broke my heart! As an huge Route 66 aficionado I can say you are so wrong. Route 66 is NOT I-40 and you need at least 2 weeks to see it from Chicago to LA (or vise versa).

dwalby said:

You mentioned several places in CA, just remember the entire central valley from Bakersfield to Redding is typically 105F, and boring as hell, so try not to spend much time there...

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Our plan is to take Pacific Coast Highway 1

dwalby said:

... And remember wherever you are, you're sharing with 37 million others trying to do the same things you are, so expect things to be crowded...

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Very good point!

dwalby said:

... In general, you never make as good time as you plan by looking at maps, you'll always be a couple hours behind schedule each day. The more riders in the group, the more you'll fall behind schedule...

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Another good point!

Uncle Phil said:

I'd seriously consider visiting Bryce Canyon since you'll be in the area. I find it much more 'interesting' than Zion.

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I just checked. You're right, it is really nice...[/QUOTE]

Uncle Phil said:

http://www.unclephil.us/PlanningATrip.htm

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Thanks, I like it.

Uncle Phil said:

http://www.unclephil.us/West2009Home.htm

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Nice trip report, I like it!

Uncle Phil said:

Since you've never ridden all together as one group, you would be wise to plan a 1 or 2 day group ride with everybody (including the ladies in the van) somewhere (maybe to Mount Rushmore or something) just to make sure the 'chemistry' is going to work. Trust me, you don't want to be on a 2 week trip and find it is doesn't. Trips like this will bring out both the worst and the best in people and sometimes the worst can be more than your heart can stand. On the road is a tough place to have to try to sort out stuff when you have money and vacation time involved. A rough schedule should be laid out so that everybody can agree/disagree on it up front.

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Totally agree. We have to try much harder to do the "test" ride before we leave for California...

When you get to San Francisco, turn right, not left. You don't want to ruin a great bike trip by going through Southern California (my apologies to those that live in SoCal). So much to see up north, and less people. Great coastlines, cooler weather, giant redwoods, Lassen National Park, spectacular roads, etc.

My 2 cents, worth every penny, or nearly so.

Lots of good advice.
In my experience, once you get to Denver, 350 to 400 mile days will be about all you'll want to do especially if you're on side roads. Plus, everyone's gas tank is different size, unless you're all on the same model bike. You've planned many nice areas along the way and shouldn't rush.
Group riding can work well. I believe it's always good to discuss a route and destination for each day. Doesn't mean you have to stick to it and most likely you won't. But, at least everyone has buy in from the start. If your group wants to split for the day, I would suggest at least plan to meet again at the end of the day. Though, I would always encourage the group to stay together. Better memories at the end of the trip
To reiterate, some of your route, it's going to be HOT! Plan accordingly.

I think you have a great trip planned. One additional thought, plan a layover day in a spot or two. Maybe Vegas and northern CA. Always nice to be off the bike for a day. Or, you could plan some nice, short rides near your stay.

Afan said:

You just broke my heart! As an huge Route 66 aficionado I can say you are so wrong. Route 66 is NOT I-40 and you need at least 2 weeks to see it from Chicago to LA (or vise versa).

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speaking as a westerner, the part from OKC west is basically I-40, which is what I was referring to. There's a few diversions along the way that are the old road, but they're the exception rather than the rule. You'll be riding a lot of freeway to follow the route, unless there's something I don't know about. I found this route map http://route66map.publishpath.com/google-map It shows its mostly I-40 with some I-25 in NM and a few short excursions off the freeway, so I'm a bit surprised that you say I'm so wrong. I've ridden the old route 66 roads in CA and AZ, and there's not much there to see, but if you're a big route 66 fan you may find it more interesting than I did. You mentioned you'd like to minimize freeway travel, so that's why I mentioned it, because it would seem to require a lot of freeway riding between the old sections.

dmcleane said:

When you get to San Francisco, turn right, not left. You don't want to ruin a great bike trip by going through Southern California (my apologies to those that live in SoCal). So much to see up north, and less people. Great coastlines, cooler weather, giant redwoods, Lassen National Park, spectacular roads, etc.

My 2 cents, worth every penny, or nearly so.

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+1 - I do find highway 1 from the Oregon Border to San Francisco much prettier and interesting than from San Francisco to SLO - although that is nice also.

As was said, a lot of Route 66 got 'swallowed' up by I40. The real 'cross country' deal now is Highway 50 which travels from Ocean City, MD to Sacramento, CA. It only hooks up with the slab (except for short portions in the east) from Grand Junction, CO to about Moab and the 'original' section that heads up north is still there. I've ridden about half of it (the western half completely) and it's a lot of two lane across the midsection of the USA. ;-)

I don't have a lot of touring experience but the one long trip I did with the wife turned out great and after 17 days we both felt good. Quote from the wife "I don't feel like I just spent 17 days on a bike". So my answers to your questions are below.

Afan said:

So, my "concerns" are:

1. On such a journey, does it usually take more stops than planned? Do you spend more time sightseeing than planned?
   Stop often. We broke the day up in small pieces. Small snack before leaving at 7 - 8 in the morning. Stop around 10 for a real breakfast. Go 100 miles and stop just to refill your drink and or fuel. (We were on a wing. 100 miles was about half a tank. I always refilled at that point.) A 10 minute stop really refreshes you.
2. There's an possibility that our wives go with us but in a mini-van. None of them are capable to ride all the time. Pro: we can make our bikes lighter by putting our stuff in the mini-van. Con: There's an additional "vehicle" to take care and most likely it's gonna slow us down a bit.
3. Any experience while riding with buddies where some prefer frugal and some don't?
   With this many people you are going to have challenges. If different accommodations are needed set up a meeting point at a certain time at a gas station in the morning.
4. If some of us want to go left route and some right route - is splitting an option?
   Only if it is pre-arranged. Everybody should have their own GPS with each nights destinations loaded. I would also suggest a phone app that shows each others locations. If you agree to split up for the day and someone has complications it would make reconnecting to help easier.
5. Is this whole ride/trip maybe too much for the first time? We all did several 3-4 days trips/rides, with 1K-2K miles. But nobody 7 days or more.
6. What's the average daily mileage you did on 2-week trips?
   The trip we took was 17 days and we averaged just over 350 miles a day. We did do some of those days on the interstate so that number may be high for you if staying off the slab.

Thanks for any help.

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I have done some 4 day trips with a group of 5 bikes. These guys are not ride all day types. They need a mid-day stop for a few hours. They like Casino's. And when you make a gas stop it is not in and out. They have to buy their scratch off lottery tickets and return to the store 3 times with any winners. It took a trip or two for me to get used to it but now I know when I fuel up to find a shady spot to park the bike and take the helmet off. A group means a lot of give and take.

schlep1967 said:

I have done some 4 day trips with a group of 5 bikes. These guys are not ride all day types. They need a mid-day stop for a few hours. They like Casino's. And when you make a gas stop it is not in and out. They have to buy their scratch off lottery tickets and return to the store 3 times with any winners. It took a trip or two for me to get used to it .......

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I'd have gotten used to it in minutes, if not seconds ...... see ya .

Tom

schlep1967 said:

Stop often. Go 100 miles and stop just to refill your drink and or fuel. A 10 minute stop really refreshes you.

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This is key for me for big days. Quick, relatively frequent stops.

schlep1967 said:

is splitting an option?
Only if it is pre-arranged.

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There ya go Bill!