Need some inputs on my plan for a trip next year

Maybe I should’ve start new thread, but it is kinda part of this one…

So, at the end of last year I changed my rear tire and the dealer who performed it said that my final drive is kaput. Toast. Next couple moths (it’s Winter, I didn’t rush myself) I was trying to figure out am I going to fix the bike or sell what’s left of it and buy other one. I decided to fix it and then trying to find used, but still usable, parts. I couldn’t find anything and couldn’t wait anymore so bought new final drive, and flange, and… Anyway, in spring I had coolant leak again. And after I “fixed” it - there was gas leak. And, shortly after - both leaks again, at the same time. Later found clutch slave cinder is leaking too… But, since I decided to fix it…
My bike is friend’s shop for almost two months. He’s car mechanic, by profession, really good one. And really busy one. He promised me to help me to fix it but when he has time. Mostly late afternoon, after my work. But couple not-expected things happened to him and couple to me, so the “quick” fix took, as I said, almost two months. And the bike is still in his shop.

Coolant leak: first it was a hose (19504-MT3-000) and I replaced it with new one (and replaced, of course, the other one too, 19506-MT3-000). After we put the carburetor back - coolant leak again: the o-ring on right water joint was bad. Ok, bought new o-rings, for both water joints (19523-MT3-000), replaced and then - leak again. This time we found that left water joint has a crack. New water joints ordered. Wonder what’s next?

Gas leak: removed carbs, changed float bowl o-rings, drain screw rings, main jet and pilot jet rings. And (short) drain hoses. But gas leaked again. Then we found that (at least) one of the o-rings on FUEL JOINTs (16027-MT3-610 and 16027-MT3-750) were bad. All 8 o-rings replaced. After who-knows-how-many-times we put and take off the gas tank and the carburetors, gas finally stoped leaking. God knows for how long…


In meantime, the group that was riding to California, decided to leave a bit earlier, last Friday in May, in a month. Now I’m getting paranoid. I have almost-fixed bike and not-so-much-time-left to test it once it’s really fixed.


This trip means a lot to me. So, as a “solution”, or a backup, or… I was thinking to buy my 2nd bike a bit earlier then I was originally planed. So in case my ST is still not fixed, or not well tested, or… I can always jump on my backup. But!!!!!!! The 2nd bike should be safe too, right? If I buy brand new bike I still have to break it in and bring it to the dealer after about 500-800 miles for first checkup, valves… right? So, buy and hop on and go do 5K miles is no-go. And, if I buy slightly used bike I don’t need to break it in but I can’t trust the owner and blindly, immediately go and do 5K miles, right?

fnmag said:

Pick up an ST1300 from someone here on the forum. You get a good bike and have a great trip.

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Hm...I just realized I forgot to mention one, very important details about my second bike. It supposed to be small(er) bike for my solo rides, a
bit more off-road friendly, easy to pick up if/when I drop it... Currently, on my list are NC700X, CB500X, V-Strom and KLR. Yes, KLR is also on the 2nd bike list, but if I have to buy something now, to be able to go to California, it's out of the game. For now at least.

Or course, one day, when I start looking for a "new" ST, it's gonna be here, of course. Where else?

But, this is not about which bike to choose. It's about "I have to buy a bike now so I can go to two-weeks 5,000-miles trip in couple weeks - should I buy new[SUP](*)[/SUP] or used one?".

(*) New as 2014/2015/2016, zero-miles, leftover bike.

Well Afan, it sounds like you pretty much got your ST cured....put it back together and ride it....you'll know in a couple days if it's good to go....remember most of what you did is just over due maintenance on a 20 year old machine...they're reliable as hell, and 5000 miles is nothing if you have good tires....have fun on your trip........ff

+1 Flyfisher, Afan.
Finish it off and ride it.
It's got to be as reliable as anything else you would buy with all the work done.
I wouldn't rush into buying anything new.
Upt'North.

He’s car mechanic, by profession, really good one. Coolant leak: first it was a hose and I replaced it with new one (and replaced, of course, the other one too). After we put the carburetor back - coolant leak again: the o-ring on right water joint was bad. Ok, bought new o-rings, for both water joints replaced and then - leak again. This time we found that left water joint has a crack. New water joints ordered. Wonder what’s next?

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dunno, but regardless of how good a car mechanic you believe him to be, you just proved your friend to be a very lousy motorcycle mechanic.

standard procedure when carbs come off (as indicated by any number of threads on the topic on this forum):

1. new hoses
2. new elbows (water joints) these cost a few dollars each
3. new o-rings, these cost next to nothing
4. new carb boots

anything less than all 4 at the same time is malpractice, and your friend didn't even come close.

I'm almost afraid to ask, did he replace the carb boots any of those times?

dwalby said:

dunno, but regardless of how good a car mechanic you believe him to be, you just proved your friend to be a very lousy motorcycle mechanic.

standard procedure when carbs come off (as indicated by any number of threads on the topic on this forum):

1. new hoses
2. new elbows (water joints) these cost a few dollars each
3. new o-rings, these cost next to nothing
4. new carb boots

anything less than all 4 at the same time is malpractice, and your friend didn't even come close.

I'm almost afraid to ask, did he replace the carb boots any of those times?

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I thought exactly the same when I read Afan's "horror story" on the number of missteps made, but was not sure that there was much use in pointing the finger, after the damage was done, so to speak. Afan's opinion of the tech may change following this revelation of the errors made, but he still may be an excellent auto tech, because that is what he knows and works on all day. The fact he has never likely worked on a ST1100 in his life would explain his ignorance about elbows and o-rings, but someone, either Afan, or the tech could have, or should have, looked for available information on what the job entailed.

But, it is hopefully fixed in that department now - the carb boots should have been done too, of course, but that's not likely to stop Afan dead on the road somewhere, unlike how a blown out elbow on the highway would. Get the rest done Afan and go for a worry free trip.

Oh, and also, you likely will continue to have your friend help in the repairs, but be sure to come here to be well informed about what SHOULD be done, instead of putting full trust in his looking for the right way to do things.

Bush said:

not sure that there was much use in pointing the finger, after the damage was done, so to speak.

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Bush said:

you likely will continue to have your friend help in the repairs, but be sure to come here to be well informed about what SHOULD be done, instead of putting full trust in his looking for the right way to do things.

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yes, I felt pretty much the same way about the finger pointing, but without making that point first your second quote may fall on deaf ears.

dwalby said:

dunno, but regardless of how good a car mechanic you believe him to be, you just proved your friend to be a very lousy motorcycle mechanic.

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As I mentioned earlier, he's car mechanic and never dealt with motorcycles. But he offered his garage, tools, all his car-knowledge and, most important - his time, to help me, for free. I should have known better about these "standard procedures" and tell him, I'm the one that should be blamed. So blaming him was kinda...

dwalby said:

standard procedure when carbs come off (as indicated by any number of threads on the topic on this forum):
1. new hoses
2. new elbows (water joints) these cost a few dollars each
3. new o-rings, these cost next to nothing
4. new carb boots
anything less than all 4 at the same time is malpractice, and your friend didn't even come close.
I'm almost afraid to ask, did he replace the carb boots any of those times?

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So, if I did all 4 steps let's say 6 months ago, and I had to remove my cabs yesterday to, let's say remove PAIR system, I still have to do all 4?!? Err... I'm not quite sure...
Yes, when I took off my carbs to replace leaking hoses, I supposed to replace everything because, as flyfisher said it the best, it supposed to be an "over due maintenance on a 20 year old machine". But, since it didn't leak first time I followed the motto "If it ain't broke...". My mistake.
Although, all carb boots on my ST are replaced around two years ago and they are still in good condition, replacing them again would be waste of money.

Bush said:

Oh, and also, you likely will continue to have your friend help in the repairs, but be sure to come here to be well informed about what SHOULD be done, instead of putting full trust in his looking for the right way to do things.

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C'mon... Ask a person who's helping me to spend an extra hour or two, daily, on ST forum, just to help me? I don't know anything about your friends but this would be end of my friendship.
If you take your bike to a dealer to fix it, do you request that mechanic should go to ST/NC/CB/... forum first and learn?

Afan said:

So, if I did all 4 steps let's say 6 months ago, and I had to remove my cabs yesterday to, let's say remove PAIR system, I still have to do all 4?!? Err... I'm not quite sure...
Yes, when I took off my carbs to replace leaking hoses, I supposed to replace everything because, as flyfisher said it the best, it supposed to be an "over due maintenance on a 20 year old machine". But, since it didn't leak first time I followed the motto "If it ain't broke...". My mistake.
Although, all carb boots on my ST are replaced around two years ago and they are still in good condition, replacing them again would be waste of money.

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Isn't it pretty much common sense that the advice given came with the caveat "if these things haven't been done ever, or in a very long time". Nobody suggested you routinely replace almost-new parts.

Afan said:

C'mon... Ask a person who's helping me to spend an extra hour or two, daily, on ST forum, just to help me? I don't know anything about your friends but this would be end of my friendship.
If you take your bike to a dealer to fix it, do you request that mechanic should go to ST/NC/CB/... forum first and learn?

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the suggestion was that YOU ask the questions here, get help and advice from people with infinitely more experience with the ST than your mechanic friend, and pass along the information to him.

dwalby said:

Isn't it pretty much common sense that the advice given came with the caveat "if these things haven't been done ever, or in a very long time". Nobody suggested you routinely replace almost-new parts.

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In the way it's written ("... anything less than all 4 at the same time is malpractice, and your friend didn't even come close...") it doesn't look like.
But, on the other hand, I should've think about it as an option too. Thanks for clearing this up.

dwalby said:

the suggestion was that YOU ask the questions here, get help and advice from people with infinitely more experience with the ST than your mechanic friend, and pass along the information to him.

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Ok, this is totally my fault. English is not my mother's language so I misunderstood it. I apologize.

Afan said:

In the way it's written ("... anything less than all 4 at the same time is malpractice, and your friend didn't even come close...") it doesn't look like.
But, on the other hand, I should've think about it as an option too. Thanks for clearing this up.

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To clarify a bit further about the malpractice comment. The hoses/elbows/o-rings/carb boots have a fairly long service life, let's say 10 to 15 years. And there's nothing much under the carbs other than the items mentioned, plus the PAIR stuff. So its very uncommon to remove the carbs from the bike (unless you have carburetor issues) because there's no periodic service items under there. So, the typical assumption is you won't likely pull the carbs at all until you need to service the hoses/elbows/o-rings because of age (or leaks). When you finally do that, they will all be at the age where they need to be replaced as a set, including the carb boots. Once you do that, you're good for another 10-15 years.

Since your mechanic friend wasn't familiar with the ST, he didn't know that the elbows will often crack when reused, or that the o-rings turn into a gooey gel over the years and need to be replaced.

Afan said:

C'mon... Ask a person who's helping me to spend an extra hour or two, daily, on ST forum, just to help me? I don't know anything about your friends but this would be end of my friendship.
If you take your bike to a dealer to fix it, do you request that mechanic should go to ST/NC/CB/... forum first and learn?

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I think dwalby has clarified the intent of my previous post on this quite well. Your friend has the expertise to do the grunt work, but not the specific knowledge to do all that is required, in this particular repair. So that's where you come in to help with info that you can glean from this site. Of course, even some Honda motorcycle techs seem to have a lack of knowledge on issues with ST's because they generally see little of them in the shop. In cases like that, I WOULD expect them to go looking for relevant info to do the job right, if only to protect their shop's reputation as one you could trust.

with the time you have allotted there will not be much time to spend at the parks on the list. Death valley is basically a drive thu at $20 a bike and 120 degree temps. Zion is a waste of time to just drive thru, there is so much to see with just some short hikes (1/4 mile) and you need to see the main canyon by shuttle bus. Entrance fee is $25 per bike. Utah has some of the most scenic byways that should not be missed. How much time do you plan to stay in vegas?? The expressways there are always jammed due to accedents. I have always found it crazy to drive by car. . You could spend 2 days in Colorado (more like 3),2 days in Utah (easily 3) and 2 days in Nevada. That's 7 days and barely hit California. Every park on your list you can easily spend 3-4 hours at. I my opinion If its California you want to see get there fast, do what you want to do and what time you have left pick and choose things on the way back that fit in .

CA Highway 1: Be aware there is a bridge out in Big Sur (between Monterrey and San Luis Obispo). There is no good bypass except maybe Carmel Valley Road & 101, that takes you inland - you miss the good scenery. Highway 1 north of San Francisco is very scenic also, but is also having closures due to mudslides which may or may not be cleaned up by your trip. Check Caltrans RoadInfo http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roads.cgi?roadnumber=1&submit=Search

Death Valley, CA in June: Count on 120F+ daytime highs, maybe worse, maybe near records. (Road is hotter yet.) Carry lots of water, and consider a cooling vest. Check weather reports - be prepared to bypass. US 95 East of DV can get warm also, with services far between. https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USCA9041:1:US

Las Vegas, NV: Why? Too Hot. Too much traffic. Only reason I go there is it's on the route from SoCal to Utah. (Let me guess, SWMBO wants to take in Celine?)

Utah: As other have said Zion is an issue with shuttle buses and other time waster's, but if you have the time do it right. Bryce is great. See if you can work in Highway 12 from Bryce to Torrey UT. IMHO Navajo Country and Monument Valley is somewhat overrated, but in general Utah is great. Consider Moab - Arches NP, Canyonlands NP, Dead Horse Point SP.

Consider going through Northern California: Highway 89 through Mount Lassen, Highway 36 from Red Bluff to Eureka, south on 101 and 1 to San Francisco. San Francisco traffic can be painful.

I suspect this is an ambitious trip mileage wise to do in 16 days - so much to see. Maybe another western trip next year? ;-)

Sort out the bike issues sooner than later, and stress test it with your short trip first. Don't be still fixing the day before you're leaving on your big trip, or Murphy may strike many miles from home. I checked my valve clearances the week before leaving for WeSTOC in Redmond. I didn't discover the leaking valve cover gasket until Washington.