Front shocks removal

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Kevcules

Kevcules

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Dduelin, you're right on the money. I measured 36-37mm sag. I'll still take your dollar and doughnut though. :)

Thanks for all the help guys. Looking forward to see how much better the bike rides next summer. We already have about 12" of snow on the ground around here...
 
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Kevcules

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Hey guys..... been riding the beast now for a few months and still not happy with the harsh stiff front suspension. It doesn't spring up and down very smoothly at all when I rock it in the garage. It's like it sticks instead of being fluid up and down. What causes that? When hitting bumps, it's like the bike is climbing up the bump instead of absorbing the bump.
Will sonic springs even out the spring action? I might try lighter oil and or oil level and turning the springs around like my manual says to do. Any thoughts on why the shocks are so stiff even after I set the proper sag?
I turned down the pre-load on the rear as well to almost no pre-load. (I did re-charge the system with fluid too)Seems I'm too light for the bike. :)

thanks
 
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Hey guys..... been riding the beast now for a few months and still not happy with the harsh stiff front suspension.
What weight oil did you use? I'm about ready to jump for Gold Valves. I'm not particularly happy with the way the bike takes bumps caused by expansion of the roadway and am hoping for better compliance. One of my fork seals is weeping so now is the time to do it. (This will be my first foray into the forks.)

Good thread. I learned a bunch reading it.
 

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It doesn't spring up and down very smoothly at all when I rock it in the garage. It's like it sticks instead of being fluid up and down.
Did someone install a fork brace and do a cruddy job of aligning everything?
 

mlheck

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Stiction is not a good thing to have in any of your suspension parts and will cause a harsh ride. It can be caused by tubes that are out of alignment with each other, bad bushings, or a bent fork. The first thing to do is remove the front wheel and check the movement of each fork individually. Pull the springs and check complete movement. If there is no stiction with the wheel off then you have a alignment issue between the forks. If it sticks with the wheel off then check the slider bushings and check the trueness of the tubes.


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Kevcules

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I used SS8 (10wt) as per my dealership's advice. They didn't have any other lighter oil for me to try.

No fork brace installed.

How do I check for stiction or fork alignment with each fork once I have the wheel off?

thanks
 
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Remove the front wheel, and then replace the front axle. Can you grab the center of the axle and spin it freely? Does it slide from side to side freely?
The first thing I would do is to check the front forks are aligned correctly. Here is a pretty good video on how to do that.
https://youtu.be/vSunBRB6-r8
 

dduelin

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I used SS8 (10wt) as per my dealership's advice. They didn't have any other lighter oil for me to try.

No fork brace installed.

How do I check for stiction or fork alignment with each fork once I have the wheel off?

thanks
Stiction is something to check with the fork/wheel assembled. It's a measurement number between averages of sag. If you have a wheel stand you can get it by yourself or with a couple of friends if you don't have a way to hold the bike in place. I'd loosen the left side axle pinch bolts and bounce the front wheel to let the forks self align then measure the stiction. To do so press down on the front of the bike, release, measure sag as S1. Pull up on the bike, release, measure sag as S2. Stiction is S2-S1. Repeat several times to average results. The difference should be less than 5 mm. If more then investigate further why the fork is binding.

FWIW I don't care for the compression damping the SS-8 provides after getting preload corrected. Most dealerships that carry Honda fluids will have SS-7 as well as SS-8. After trying SS-8 and another brand of 10 wt I felt some of what you expressed. The forks were soft over small bumps and gently undulating surfaces but harsh on large bumps and small hard-edged bumps and the bike wanted to run wide exiting bumpy corners. I mixed SS-7 two parts to 1 part 8 to get a wt closer to 5 but not straight 5. This works well for me. If you added the correct amount of about 635 ml oil per leg you could remove a fork cap, snake in a piece of vinyl tubing on a syringe and suck out about 420 ml of oil and replace same with SS-7.
 
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Kevcules

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Thanks for the replies guys.

... good video for fork alignment. Didn't realize it was something to watch out for. I did actually notice the last few months that my steering seemed crooked and not straight and I ride down the road. I can't release the handlebars while riding and still go straight ,so I'll check into that. I did do the "loosen the pinch bolts and bounce the front end trick" when re-installing the forks already though. We'll see what I find.

....thanks for the advice on checking the stiction with sag measurements. There's definitely something causing the shocks to not move fluidly and causing the harsh ride. Also, I do remember being told before about getting some S7 fluid and mixing it with S8 to get a lighter oil ,but when I ask my local dealership they always say S8. I'll talk to a more senior counter rep next time and I may have to order some through them. I was very careful to measure out the amount of oil per leg as was mentioned. If and when I disassemble , I'll check that level again.
 
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Kevcules

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So far just measured stiction by raising the front of the bike, releasing then measuring and then compressing the bike, releasing and measuring. I've got roughly 7-10 mm of difference. I'll get some S7 fluid soon and try mixing that. I tried re-aligning the forks as per the video and do see a small change in my handle bars position only.
 
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Kevcules

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Removed the front shocks, the shock spring motion seemed pretty fluid. Drained the fluid and replaced with approx 638 ml of Belray 7WT in each shock. Didn't measure fluid level. (cost was $18/liter compared to honda at $12 for only 473 M/L )
Went for a short test ride and do notice better bump absorption and can see more shock travel when hitting uneven terrain. Will need more testing! :)

One thing I was going to try was adding less fluid. Would that increase the spring action? (like opening up a damper screw?)

thanks
 
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mlheck

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Fluid level for the most part only effects the last part of total fork travel. During normal road conditions you won't notice any change. The fluid level affects the the size of the trapped air pocket at the top of the fork. This trapped air acts as a progressive spring. As the fork is compressed it's resistance goes up as the air pocket is compressed. The higher the oil level, the smaller the air pocket, the faster the pressure builds.

The internal valving and oil viscosity affect the speed of the spring travel.
 
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Kevcules

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Front suspension still isn't good IMO. I feel I still have stiction and a fairly rough ride . The spring compression isn't fluid and seems to not want to compress easily. I was going to dive into my shocks again soon and replace the bushings, but I only have 42,000 km's on the bike. Could they be bad already?

Have any of you heard about , or have done this "lube your shock seal" job on your bike? See link below....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK6_7oTF_bI
 
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I've always lightly wiped the seals and the dust seals (inside edge) with a rubber friendly silicone grease upon assembly.
With road grime and dirt, it does not take much to get the dust seals to start grabbing the tubes. Don't put a lot on them, or you'll just start collecting dirt and damage your seals.
 
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I put Gold Valves in my forks at 36k miles, and while I had them apart, I replaced every wear item - seals, bushings, copper sealing washer, etc. That's just me - the bushings showed some wear, but there was still much useful life in them, according to the wear pattern on them and what the Service Manual says. While I am skeptical of anecdotal evidence (my own lack of wear in more than your distance), I'd suggest loosening the axle pinch bolts, bouncing the bike, and tightening them again. You could also double check the triple tree clamps and go through the procedure for lining up the forks.
 
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Kevcules

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I put Gold Valves in my forks at 36k miles, and while I had them apart, I replaced every wear item - seals, bushings, copper sealing washer, etc. That's just me - the bushings showed some wear, but there was still much useful life in them, according to the wear pattern on them and what the Service Manual says. While I am skeptical of anecdotal evidence (my own lack of wear in more than your distance), I'd suggest loosening the axle pinch bolts, bouncing the bike, and tightening them again. You could also double check the triple tree clamps and go through the procedure for lining up the forks.

I tried the shock line up method a few times, no change. I still have a slightly right turning bike also. I can take my hands off the bars if I lean to the left.

I think I may go into the front shocks again and check the bushings near the end of my riding season. If they are not expensive, I'll probably change them out.

Thanks for the replies.....
 
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I tried the shock line up method a few times, no change. I still have a slightly left turning bike also. I can take my hands off the bars if I lean to the right.

I think I may go into the front shocks again and check the bushings near the end of my riding season. If they are not expensive, I'll probably change them out.

Thanks for the replies.....
https://youtu.be/vSunBRB6-r8
 
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Kevcules

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Rig up a mizzen mast aft and trim a storm sail to starboard. You might need a small spinnaker pole to keep the boom out to one side at speed.
Instead, I'll just not let go of my handle bars.... :)
 
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Instead, I'll just not let go of my handle bars.... :)
Probably a better idea, but didn't someone else have this problem? Was there not a discussion about weighting one of the side cases? I cannot help but think the two problems are related - pulling to one side and fork problems.

What would cause a bike to pull to one side? The front and rear wheels being out of line - but our bikes have an axle that cannot be adjusted to twist the rear wheel (like a chain driven bike w/ rear wheel adjusters). Frame being bent - highly unlikely absent a crash. Could one dragging caliper cause this? I would think the hot rotor would be very obvious and pushing the bike w/ the engine off would be an instant giveaway that the brakes were a problem. Steering head bearings? Maybe. And out of balance bike? I've had over 10 lbs in a side case with nothing on the other side and not noticed a problem.
 
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