Rear calipers 20 percent sticking

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Dan....I'll use the line from the motor officer on the movie Wild Hogs....For the Love of God continue! PLEASE call me! I really do think I can help you.
:call:
 
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Quiz time folks....put your thinking hats on...
Now if the calipers have been rebuilt, The SMC & PCV replaced, and the system bled (although I suspect the shop is using a vacuume system)....
What else would cause the system to be slow to release on one application, then jam and lock up on the second?
I believe the answer is pretty easy...
My money is on the following: 1. The shop does not know how to bleed the ST brake system. 2. Alot of shops don't follow the correct procedure and tilt the SMC or bleed the PCV.
3. Wait for it.....I bet nobody has cleaned/inspected or lubricated the sliding pins, or checked to see if the stopper bolt was installed and torqued correctly. If the rear caliper was not moving smoothly, those are the exact symptoms it would cause. The caliper, no matter how clean or rebuilt, would tilt, drag and jam up!
Somebody please get Dan to call the white courtesy phone! If this continues, the only way I will be able to explain it would be will two puppets in a therapists office :rofl1:
 
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Now I had rear brake dragging and not fully releasing after brake service. Everyone gave all kinds of suggestions and it was as simple as the pads had been installed incorrectly. I have seen this on more than a few occasions. Start with the most basic things first. I may very well be wrong but checking to see it the actual pads are installed correctly is rather easy and not very time-consuming.
 
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Dan Oklahoma
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I will call him tomorrow to see if that helps. He is scratching his head at this point. He truly seems knowledgeable and owns a 05 ST and the bike dealership he mechanics in. 40 years working on bikes and I have the one that most stumps him.
 
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Again.....call me tomorrow too.
Wouldn't be the first time I showed a veteran Honda mechanic how to work on an ST1300. Or got a call or email from someone at Honda asking for assistance on these bikes :roll:
 
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What an ordeal.. heard from the shop and they were sure the last part replacement of the pcv would fix my break drag... not so much...

Rebuilt calipers
SMC
REPLACED PCV
Bleed the breaks
Checked for air.
Bleeding brakes again today

Hit the back break and it engages and takes about 6 seconds to disengage. Hit the back break again and they lock up.
I am now beyond frustrated and looking to start a prayer circle for my bike as it seems to defy earthly abilities at this point.
My mechanic has had Honda on the phone multiple times and had a rep actually in the shop this week for a verdict. That rep said pcv replacement is the ticket.
It's brakes... I would have never thought a bike would be crippled over brakes.... brakes! So very disappointed.
"Hit the back brake and they lock up"....this may not be an issue with the SMC, PCV, or possibly even air in the system. This is a rear caliper binding issue!
Have the shop inspect the following items: 1. The 14 mm stopper bolt 2. The spring clip in the roof of the rear caliper (its possible for the little tabs to be bent causing the brakes to drag) Make sure the inboard pad is square with the caliper housing, If you can see ANY type of gap, no matter how small, the pads may be on top of the tabs. 3. Remove the rear caliper and clean/inspect/lubricate the sliding pins and brake pad retaining pins. (I would also remove both front calipers and clean/inspect/grease all clips and lubricate their slider dowels as well, as front brake binding, will drag the rear brakes too. 4. Make sure you have OEM Honda rear pads (correct ones) and that the white heat spacer is fitted correctly. 5. Remove the SMC bracket and inspect and lubricate the lower pivot point needle bearings and bearing surface of the lower bolt head. You should also Print out John's article on avoiding the pitfalls of bleed brakes and take it in and have them read it!
I am still sitting by the white courtesy phone like a may-tag repairman if you decide you want to talk.
 

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Joe
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He truly seems knowledgeable and owns a 05 ST and the bike dealership he mechanics in. 40 years working on bikes and I have have the that most stumps him.
Well, sure seems like that would be enough to trust him. It's possible one of the replacement parts is defective, but unlikely however we have had folks replace t-stats w/new ones that were also an issue.

The ST's brake system is definitely more complicated that it should be. It's similar to the goldwing however so any shop used to working on those should be pretty good at brake bleeding. I wonder if the SMC was tilted - per manual - when doing the bleed. If they are following the service manual it should be pretty obvious... it does take patience, especially the PCV bleed.. you can't rush that, and the rear brake bleed sometimes takes several push-and-hold of the rear brake pedal to get fluid out of the Rear? bleeder? I can't remember if that's the slow one.

I don't know if they'd be open to it but would they allow me to go up there and help out? I can't do anything until Saturday but maybe I can do something. Or, maybe there's someone closer w/ST bleeding experience who can help during the week. My labor rate is much cheaper than theirs... I'd like a cap.. lol
 
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Dan Oklahoma
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They didn't have time to re bleed the breaks. Tomorrow hopefully. I am definitely going to ask if they would be open to your expertise if they are not successful. Danny Gordon (owner operator chief mechanic) would most likely jump at the opportunity. I would gladly provide a cap as it would be a honer to meet you. Will keep you posted.
 
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once the rear brake has locked up, does it have fluid pressure holding it? I have seen this type of a problem and a car and found that a steel line was dented. The other was the ABS hydraulic unit was not letting the fluid return. When the brake is locked loosen the bleeder to see if the caliper releases. At least you can differentiate a fluid pressure problem or a mechanical one.
 
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Not always true, if the sliding pins are dirty or dry and bind up or fail to move or return slowly, letting pressure off the bleeder will do just that, remove the pressure off what is binding and allow the caliper to align and work again. I showed a member today how little effort it takes to bind the rear brakes with fingertip pressure off center, then how smoothly it works when cleaned and lube, that one finger moved the caliper from side to side like a trombone lol.
.02
 
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Dan Oklahoma
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So I spoke Durant Motorsports and spoke to the mechanic. He has not had the time to do another bleed but mentioned he was going to tonight. I asked him about the sliding pins and he said he appreciated the advice but he has done that.. I contacted Honda Service today to see why they have not initiated a safety recall. They actually said rear breaks locking up was news to them... I asked him to type in google, ST1300 breaks and let the and times roll. He created a case for me lol...
 
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See thread REAR BRAKE SEIZED post number 15.
I ask myself, did he open a case for you? or simply tell you what he was told to tell you to keep you happy?
 
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After following this thread for a while,, I decided to try and improve my dragging rear brake today. I removed the larger (14mm cap) caliper slide pin and wiped off the rather thick grease off. I sprayed some release agent into the pin hole and reassembled that pin. I was not able to do the same to the smaller slide pin,,,, but I did note that the boot was damaged on the small pin,,, and needs to be replaced. Contamination there would cause it to stick and/or bind. I also noticed a fair build up of dirt on the pistons. After a bit of cleaning, the rear wheel was spinning freely. I have not had a chance to test ride it yet,,, but I be a short ride would show a much cooler rotor,,, due to less drag. Looks like a caliper servicing is on my near to do list. One other question,,, what size and quantity of copper sealing washers should be purchased for brake work like smc/pcv/caliper rebuilds ?? thx,, Cat'

See thread REAR BRAKE SEIZED post number 15.
I ask myself, did he open a case for you? or simply tell you what he was told to tell you to keep you happy?
 
Joined
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After following this thread for a while,, I decided to try and improve my dragging rear brake today. I removed the larger (14mm cap) caliper slide pin and wiped off the rather thick grease off. I sprayed some release agent into the pin hole and reassembled that pin. I was not able to do the same to the smaller slide pin,,,, but I did note that the boot was damaged on the small pin,,, and needs to be replaced. Contamination there would cause it to stick and/or bind. I also noticed a fair build up of dirt on the pistons. After a bit of cleaning, the rear wheel was spinning freely. I have not had a chance to test ride it yet,,, but I be a short ride would show a much cooler rotor,,, due to less drag. Looks like a caliper servicing is on my near to do list. One other question,,, what size and quantity of copper sealing washers should be purchased for brake work like smc/pcv/caliper rebuilds ?? thx,, Cat'
What do you mean you removed the caliper slide pin? No need to do that, once the caliper is removed from the mounted position, you simple pull the mounting bracket apart from the caliper housing.
You will then notice that when both pins are clean/lubed that the caliper slides from side to side very easily. If you try to move it while holding the front or rear (either ends) of the bracket that it will bind up and jam, however, if you take a single finger and press in the very center, it will slide with no effort at all.
.02
 
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The caliper,, and it's mounting bracket is still in the bike. It likely would move easily on it's slide pins,,, now that I cleaned up the sticky dried out grease,,, if the pistons were retracted. They are pretty dirty,,, so I will try the zip-tie trick to clean them up a bit.

Oh,, what is the recommended source on copper washers,,, size and qty's,, ie: 10 or more ?? Cat'
 
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Dan Oklahoma
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Very true.. so the saga may be coming to a conclusion. The shop owner decided to take the rear caliper off of his new ST and place on mine... it worked perfectly my bike. All said and done it's something with the caliper even after the rebuild. 900 bucks for 2 sets of break pads, rebuilt caliper, new caliper, new pvc, rebuilt smc, two bleeds, rear rotor replaced and a partridge in a pear tree. Glad I haggled 2000 down on the bike initially or I would have regrets. At least I have a new breaking system from soup to nuts. Fingers crossed I have it back Friday. Stressful work week so a ride this weekend would be amazing.
 
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Very true.. so the saga may be coming to a conclusion. The shop owner decided to take the rear caliper off of his new ST and place on mine... it worked perfectly my bike. All said and done it's something with the caliper even after the rebuild. 900 bucks for 2 sets of break pads, rebuilt caliper, new caliper, new pvc, rebuilt smc, two bleeds, rear rotor replaced and a partridge in a pear tree. Glad I haggled 2000 down on the bike initially or I would have regrets. At least I have a new breaking system from soup to nuts. Fingers crossed I have it back Friday. Stressful work week so a ride this weekend would be amazing.
Demand to have him return your old caliper to you for inspection (just to make sure it was really replaced, and to inspect the sliders to see if they were bent/dirty, or damaged in any way.
I'm sure everyone following this thread would like to know what was found to be wrong with yours. I would even pay for shipping to have to mail it to me for inspection so I could post it on the forum.
Good luck on Friday, ride very carefully until your sure its completely sorted.
 
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Dan Oklahoma
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Finally I have my bike back. Rides like a dream. They waived all parts and labor for the items that did not need replaced. I have a box of parts... cost more than expected but it's safe and it's riding weather. WHAT A RIDE.
 
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That's great news! What are you going to do with the parts? I would love to see and inspect them to try and figure out what was wrong, as it may help other members in the future.:think1:
 
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