Well, to be more precise – after operating the rear brake lever, if I give the rear wheel a good push, i get one full rotation from the end of the push – maybe a little more. If I spin it a couple of times without operating the brake again, that increases to about 1.5 revolutions.
Coolant getting in oil / Cracked Cylinder
- Thread starter naustin
- Start date
Update:
Pulled the rear wheel and caliper and cleaned it thoroughly, and am now satisfied it is releasing properly. I'm waiting for a Motion-Pro tool to arrive to make the brake bleed job easier, and should be able to knock that out this week after work, once it arrives. The mechanic confirmed he bled the Proportion Control Valve last - which we all know is wrong. So, I will re-bleed the system in the correct sequence. It will be interesting to see if I get noticeably dirty fluid at any point in the process. I plan to push a couple quarts through it all together, even if I'm not seeing air bubbles since it was previously done incorrectly.
Also, pulled the oil pan to inspect the pick-up this weekend. I didn't find anything alarming in there, but the screen was pretty dirty with deposits and looked partially restricted. Makes me wonder about that stupid reusable oil filter seen in the picture of the used motor... But, over all, transmission gears, etc. looked good, so I'm not going to worry about it much more at this point, unless there are other issues. Buttoned it back up with Permatex Ultra Grey in lieu of the Threebond 1207b. I actually ordered the Threebond stuff from Amazon, but I was too impatient to wait. I guess if it leaks, I can redo it with the Threebond stuff.
Finally, I pulled the O2 sensors, and neither one shows any obvious discoloration or damage. I didn't bother to test them, though - I just went ahead and ordered new ones. They will be here this week, and then I should be riding....
Thanks again to Larry for the coaching on the Brake Bleed process. :call:
Pulled the rear wheel and caliper and cleaned it thoroughly, and am now satisfied it is releasing properly. I'm waiting for a Motion-Pro tool to arrive to make the brake bleed job easier, and should be able to knock that out this week after work, once it arrives. The mechanic confirmed he bled the Proportion Control Valve last - which we all know is wrong. So, I will re-bleed the system in the correct sequence. It will be interesting to see if I get noticeably dirty fluid at any point in the process. I plan to push a couple quarts through it all together, even if I'm not seeing air bubbles since it was previously done incorrectly.
Also, pulled the oil pan to inspect the pick-up this weekend. I didn't find anything alarming in there, but the screen was pretty dirty with deposits and looked partially restricted. Makes me wonder about that stupid reusable oil filter seen in the picture of the used motor... But, over all, transmission gears, etc. looked good, so I'm not going to worry about it much more at this point, unless there are other issues. Buttoned it back up with Permatex Ultra Grey in lieu of the Threebond 1207b. I actually ordered the Threebond stuff from Amazon, but I was too impatient to wait. I guess if it leaks, I can redo it with the Threebond stuff.
Finally, I pulled the O2 sensors, and neither one shows any obvious discoloration or damage. I didn't bother to test them, though - I just went ahead and ordered new ones. They will be here this week, and then I should be riding....
Thanks again to Larry for the coaching on the Brake Bleed process. :call:
Update:
Motion-Pro tool was waiting for me after work last night. It worked great, except for the left front outer bleeder, which I had to remove and wrap with teflon tape in order to finally bleed without air sneaking back past the threads. At any rate, got the job done.
The fluid from the front calipers looked ok, but the Proportioning valve and both rear bleeders discharged extremely dirty fluid - dark reddish. Not only was the most recent job done wrong, I wonder if the correct procedure was ever applied when I've had it in for service other places in the past. Needless to say, I'll be doing it myself exclusively from now on.
Just waiting for the two new O2 sensors now....
Also had to stop and buy another quart of oil - forgot it would need 5 and not just 4 afer dropping the oil pan. Should I put in the first four and run it briefly before adding the 5th- or just dump in all 5 even though the level in the crank case will initially be too high?
Motion-Pro tool was waiting for me after work last night. It worked great, except for the left front outer bleeder, which I had to remove and wrap with teflon tape in order to finally bleed without air sneaking back past the threads. At any rate, got the job done.
The fluid from the front calipers looked ok, but the Proportioning valve and both rear bleeders discharged extremely dirty fluid - dark reddish. Not only was the most recent job done wrong, I wonder if the correct procedure was ever applied when I've had it in for service other places in the past. Needless to say, I'll be doing it myself exclusively from now on.
Just waiting for the two new O2 sensors now....
Also had to stop and buy another quart of oil - forgot it would need 5 and not just 4 afer dropping the oil pan. Should I put in the first four and run it briefly before adding the 5th- or just dump in all 5 even though the level in the crank case will initially be too high?
Last edited:
woodybelle
Site Supporter
It will run fine initially with 4 qts. It is easier to add more than to drain it out so I would start with 4.
Don't believe it holds 5 quarts a little more than 4.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
- Messages
- 9,520
- Location
- Cedar City, Utah
- Bike
- 12/04 ST 1300s
- 2024 Miles
- 000420
- STOC #
- 5901
When I change my oil, I place it on the center stand, drain it, then leaning it on the side stand, let it continue to drain. Once it stops/really slows down, I'll put the plug back in and then pull the filter, while it's still on the side stand (much easier to get to). New filter and back on the center stand where I put in 4 quarts, then add 4oz. If in doubt about getting it low enough, put in 3oz and run it and check it.
I've only done this a few dozen times... changing oil every 5K, in 300K+ miles on five bikes. Seems to work everytime!
I've only done this a few dozen times... changing oil every 5K, in 300K+ miles on five bikes. Seems to work everytime!
THAT is called practice!I've only done this a few dozen times... changing oil every 5K, in 300K+ miles on five bikes. Seems to work everytime!
^^ Exactly :yes::yes:Did anyone not see that he disassembled the pan off the bottle of the engine? This is why he was concerned with putting the correct amount back it
It's amazing how much more oil is trapped in the forward gallery and impossible to drain during a normal oil change.
Update:
Well....
I received the new O2 sensors and installed them. Also topped off the rear preload adjustor per the Article on this site -- as I found it was 10 turns (20 clicks) to engagement. It now engages at the beginning of the second turn.
Ran the bike and found the 3-way coolant T-fitting right above the right radiator fan was leaking. Once the bike got hot - it was spraying out pretty good and left a puddle on my shop floor in no time. Checked and found no crack in the fitting itself, so re-tightened the clamps, and noted the the hoses themselves are swollen and need to be replaced.
Despite that, I put all the body work back on, because I wanted to test ride it properly. I still have a couple of issues and tasks to address:
1.) Bike just doesn't sound quite right. It's louder somehow. Growlier, maybe running a little rough... The Jetsons whine is there, and normal -- but when I get on it hard or rev it up, the bike seems louder and maybe rougher. At 3,000 steady revs on the centerstand, I think there is a little miss in it... No big vibs, no loss of power... Doesn't sound wrong - just doesn't sound right....
------Plugs/Wires, etc. (all the tune up stuff the "mechanic" was supposed to have supposedly done in the first place)
------Counter-Balancer Lash Adjustment?
------Exhaust Gaskets, or sealent at slipons? (didn't feel any exhaust leaks)
------Failing Cats?
------Paranoia ----> Need a damn shrink?
2.) Bike isn't shifting correctly - On the test ride, I was constantly missing shifts and really having throw the lever further than I'm used to.
------Bleed Clutch
------Adjust linkage
3.) Coolant leak is still intermittent.
------Replace Hoses/clamps
4.) Front brake was rock hard after bleeding properly, and strapping open overnight. But it feels like it might have softened up after the test ride just a smidgen. Its still as good as its ever been, but I think there must still be a bit of air in the system somewhere.
To top it all off, as I was finally rolling the bike out of my shop to ride it (4 ft door leading from garage) I lost my balance and leaned the bike up against the door frame and put a crease/dent in the tank. It just never ends.... Its like adding insult to injury and now I have a visible blemish to remind me of this ordeal for as long as I own the bike.
Well....
I received the new O2 sensors and installed them. Also topped off the rear preload adjustor per the Article on this site -- as I found it was 10 turns (20 clicks) to engagement. It now engages at the beginning of the second turn.
Ran the bike and found the 3-way coolant T-fitting right above the right radiator fan was leaking. Once the bike got hot - it was spraying out pretty good and left a puddle on my shop floor in no time. Checked and found no crack in the fitting itself, so re-tightened the clamps, and noted the the hoses themselves are swollen and need to be replaced.
Despite that, I put all the body work back on, because I wanted to test ride it properly. I still have a couple of issues and tasks to address:
1.) Bike just doesn't sound quite right. It's louder somehow. Growlier, maybe running a little rough... The Jetsons whine is there, and normal -- but when I get on it hard or rev it up, the bike seems louder and maybe rougher. At 3,000 steady revs on the centerstand, I think there is a little miss in it... No big vibs, no loss of power... Doesn't sound wrong - just doesn't sound right....
------Plugs/Wires, etc. (all the tune up stuff the "mechanic" was supposed to have supposedly done in the first place)
------Counter-Balancer Lash Adjustment?
------Exhaust Gaskets, or sealent at slipons? (didn't feel any exhaust leaks)
------Failing Cats?
------Paranoia ----> Need a damn shrink?
2.) Bike isn't shifting correctly - On the test ride, I was constantly missing shifts and really having throw the lever further than I'm used to.
------Bleed Clutch
------Adjust linkage
3.) Coolant leak is still intermittent.
------Replace Hoses/clamps
4.) Front brake was rock hard after bleeding properly, and strapping open overnight. But it feels like it might have softened up after the test ride just a smidgen. Its still as good as its ever been, but I think there must still be a bit of air in the system somewhere.
To top it all off, as I was finally rolling the bike out of my shop to ride it (4 ft door leading from garage) I lost my balance and leaned the bike up against the door frame and put a crease/dent in the tank.
It just never ends.... Its like adding insult to injury and now I have a visible blemish to remind me of this ordeal for as long as I own the bike.
Last edited:
DO NOT attempt to ride the bike with that three way coolant tee leaking! They have a very bad habit of snapping off and will pump your coolant out at a very fast rate, and you don't want coolant under your tires while riding
The crack when someone tightens the worm clamp too tight, and the hoses keep enough pressure on them pushed up against the engine head, that its hard to detect leaking unless you take and move them around while the bike is under pressure.
Also, when tightening all the coolant clamps, don't just start turning your screw driver (6 mm socket), but remove the hoses on the bottom/back side of the T-stat housing, and wire brush off any rust on the chrome looking pipes. Leaks in this area tend to seep between the hoses and the fittings and rust things up pretty good, and they will not seal well without doing this. While your checking all your hoses, make sure this dummy didn't use a screw driver to remove the hoses and poke holes in them.
Another thing to check on the coolant system would be the radiator pipes/elbows, when these are over tightened they tend to get egg shaped and will leak coolant down the side of the radiator, which will steam off and go undetected.
Just some of the stuff that I would suggest checking: Did he put the spark plug wires back on the correct plugs? Don't laugh, I've found number 2 and 4 backwards before after a shop worked on a bike. When the bike is dead cold, adjust the counter-balancer adjustment. The air filter may have been tipped over when putting the cover back on, this would make a deeper sound.
My first guess on the shifting issues are, the linkage is probably not adjusted correctly, and the clutch should be flushed and bled properly (may be air in system also). While your adjusting your linkage, peek at the slave cylinder weep hole and see if there are signs of leakage down there.
Give me a call tonight after you get off work and I'll give you a list of some other things to check.
Larry
The crack when someone tightens the worm clamp too tight, and the hoses keep enough pressure on them pushed up against the engine head, that its hard to detect leaking unless you take and move them around while the bike is under pressure.
Also, when tightening all the coolant clamps, don't just start turning your screw driver (6 mm socket), but remove the hoses on the bottom/back side of the T-stat housing, and wire brush off any rust on the chrome looking pipes. Leaks in this area tend to seep between the hoses and the fittings and rust things up pretty good, and they will not seal well without doing this. While your checking all your hoses, make sure this dummy didn't use a screw driver to remove the hoses and poke holes in them.
Another thing to check on the coolant system would be the radiator pipes/elbows, when these are over tightened they tend to get egg shaped and will leak coolant down the side of the radiator, which will steam off and go undetected.
Just some of the stuff that I would suggest checking: Did he put the spark plug wires back on the correct plugs? Don't laugh, I've found number 2 and 4 backwards before after a shop worked on a bike. When the bike is dead cold, adjust the counter-balancer adjustment. The air filter may have been tipped over when putting the cover back on, this would make a deeper sound.
My first guess on the shifting issues are, the linkage is probably not adjusted correctly, and the clutch should be flushed and bled properly (may be air in system also). While your adjusting your linkage, peek at the slave cylinder weep hole and see if there are signs of leakage down there.
Give me a call tonight after you get off work and I'll give you a list of some other things to check.
Larry
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2005
- Messages
- 9,520
- Location
- Cedar City, Utah
- Bike
- 12/04 ST 1300s
- 2024 Miles
- 000420
- STOC #
- 5901
How long did this engine sit before the mechanic installed it? The shift linkage could have some crud built up on the link balls, you might need to clean them up and re-grease them!
Put about 150 miles on the bike yesterday and at one point even topped it out at 135 (GPS - redline in 5th). Overall, I think its 95% OK. Coolant leak on the 3way T seems to be resolved.
-- Still having shifting issues, but I think its just the linkage that needs adjustment. Its not corroded, and the joints move freely, so I think its just the length/position that is out of wack. I can completely avoid mis-shifts if I'm deliberate - but the throw is too high, or something. I have new boots too - so it might just be that... Will tackle that shortly...
-- There is a weird power pulse / knock / vibration. I'm not a mechanic so I'm not sure exactly, but its definitely the motor. 2-3? beats per second at idle. It increases to the point that you can't count it with RPMs and I believe is what is creating and different growly exhaust note and engine "feel" that I've noticed. I think the original motor maybe had the same thing, but much less pronounced? I don't really remember exactly...
-- There is a buzz in the right footpeg and handlebar at 75mph. Might be related to the above? Previously, I didn't feel the buzz, but my right foot/middle toe would fall asleep on all day rides - so I think, again, its just something more pronounced than it used to be. Maybe the torque sequence on the engine mount bolts wasn't performed precisely... Who knows. Then again, the bike doesn't pull to the right as hard as it used to - so that's actually a big improvement.
--Ultimately, I am on my way to the garage to adjust the Counter-Balancer gear mesh and see if it makes any difference.
Oh yeah - one more thing -- Cut open the oil filter the bike came home with and found it full of metal. Some of that was likely the result of the way I cut it open --- but there was a lot of metal deep down in the pleats of the filter medium picked up by a magnet. (Pieces of Valve Shim / Piston Ring?) I think the "mechanic" swapped the filter from the original motor (post destruction) onto the replacement motor as a substitute for the goofy billet unit seen in the pictures earlier in the thread. (&$**$&%*#@!!*) At least, I HOPE that's what he did! (What are the odds he went a bought a new Honda oil filter? -- Given all that has gone down...) I replaced the oil and filter immediately after I got the bike back -- so now going to let the Seafoam do its work for another couple hundred miles, and then do another change and cut open the filter again to take a look and make sure its OK.
Bought some Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40 Diesel Oil, and a Mobile M1-110 Filter based on Larry's suggestion for the next oil change.
-- Still having shifting issues, but I think its just the linkage that needs adjustment. Its not corroded, and the joints move freely, so I think its just the length/position that is out of wack. I can completely avoid mis-shifts if I'm deliberate - but the throw is too high, or something. I have new boots too - so it might just be that... Will tackle that shortly...
-- There is a weird power pulse / knock / vibration. I'm not a mechanic so I'm not sure exactly, but its definitely the motor. 2-3? beats per second at idle. It increases to the point that you can't count it with RPMs and I believe is what is creating and different growly exhaust note and engine "feel" that I've noticed. I think the original motor maybe had the same thing, but much less pronounced? I don't really remember exactly...
-- There is a buzz in the right footpeg and handlebar at 75mph. Might be related to the above? Previously, I didn't feel the buzz, but my right foot/middle toe would fall asleep on all day rides - so I think, again, its just something more pronounced than it used to be. Maybe the torque sequence on the engine mount bolts wasn't performed precisely... Who knows. Then again, the bike doesn't pull to the right as hard as it used to - so that's actually a big improvement.
--Ultimately, I am on my way to the garage to adjust the Counter-Balancer gear mesh and see if it makes any difference.
Oh yeah - one more thing -- Cut open the oil filter the bike came home with and found it full of metal. Some of that was likely the result of the way I cut it open --- but there was a lot of metal deep down in the pleats of the filter medium picked up by a magnet. (Pieces of Valve Shim / Piston Ring?) I think the "mechanic" swapped the filter from the original motor (post destruction) onto the replacement motor as a substitute for the goofy billet unit seen in the pictures earlier in the thread. (&$**$&%*#@!!*) At least, I HOPE that's what he did! (What are the odds he went a bought a new Honda oil filter? -- Given all that has gone down...) I replaced the oil and filter immediately after I got the bike back -- so now going to let the Seafoam do its work for another couple hundred miles, and then do another change and cut open the filter again to take a look and make sure its OK.
Bought some Valvoline Premium Blue 15W-40 Diesel Oil, and a Mobile M1-110 Filter based on Larry's suggestion for the next oil change.
Attachments
Last edited:
Well - Just finished bleeding the clutch and adjusting the Counter-balancer Lash. The cold procedure resulted in 1-2 marks tighter than where I found them. I don't think they'd ever been adjusted as the adjustor screws were seized and I had a hard time initially turning them at all. Gave a little shot of WD 40 and they freed up. After the initial adjustment, I started the bike and let it warm up. Lots more whine, but my "knock" was unchanged - so I backed them off to where they were in the first place.
Then I did the clutch and found lots of air. Took it for a ride and my shifting issues are all gone - and the knock is basically gone too. Must have been the clutch all along...
Fingers crossed on everything else, but at this point - I'm feeling pretty good about it.
Thanks to everyone, especially Larry. I'll continue to update this thread from time to time over the rest of the season as I continue to monitor things.
Then I did the clutch and found lots of air. Took it for a ride and my shifting issues are all gone - and the knock is basically gone too. Must have been the clutch all along...
Fingers crossed on everything else, but at this point - I'm feeling pretty good about it.
Thanks to everyone, especially Larry. I'll continue to update this thread from time to time over the rest of the season as I continue to monitor things.
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
The clutch basket in this bike can be rattly when engaged and not under load. If you pull in the lever and it goes away, that's what it is. On some bikes it's louder than others, and adjusting the counterbalancers can help it but won't get rid of it entirely.
Could be. I wouldn't worry too much about it; oil flows in from the edges and out to the engine through the hole in the middle. If the clean side of the filter still looks clean, the filter did its job.
If you ride as it gets colder, you might want to consider a 10W-40 or 5W-40, which will be a lot less gooey when you start it in the morning.
--Mark
Kevin_56
Site Supporter
I can personally +1 this. I use to run 15-40, but in cooler/cold temps, the engine turned over slow enough it would resist to start. On one occasion trying to do a coldest ride a few years ago, it plain would not start due to pulling the battery down enough to not continue to turn over. Went to a 5-40 and never a starting issue when cold.
New guy on the site, just read this whole thread and want to commend you on your patience and restraint through the whole ordeal .... and finding the time and inclination to share it all with us.
Gord (and Larry is awesome) Jones:bow1:
Gord (and Larry is awesome) Jones:bow1:
That must be a big relief. And a big increase in 'rideability' not having the annoyance of poor shifting.
Will you cut open the new oil filter when it's change-time?