Coolant getting in oil / Cracked Cylinder

Blrfl

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I'm thinking it may be a good ideal to run a magnetic pick up tool in the plug holes before finishing it up when doing a shim change.
Better would be to leave the plugs in, because there's no need to remove them when changing the shims. The spark plug wells are deep enough that any tool you stick in there isn't going to reach the place in the cylinder where the shim would have fallen.

I said to Nick in a PM that a plug hole is the most likely route in since you wouldn't have shims anywhere near the intake during a change anyway.

--Mark
 

dduelin

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Just saying it's easier to bump the engine over to line up the timing marks with the spark plugs out. That's why we remove them but then always lay a cloth over or plug up the inaccessible places that small items can fall into.
 
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naustin
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I spoke to the mechanic about 9:30 this morning and that went OK... He was in his truck and already 3-4 hours down the road on the way to Missouri to pick-up a `09 motor with 16K - so that was good news. The motor is still in a crashed bike, so he's hoping to ride it enough to verify it runs and goes through all the gears. If its good, he was planning to pull the motor himself, and then get it back to his shop late this evening. Not sure if its at a salvage yard, or a private party, or what. Didn't think to ask while I had him on the phone. I asked him to shoot me a picture and call again on his way home.

I'll let you all know how it turns out.
 
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Good for you,, Nick,, keeping your eye on the ball and the big picture in mind. I would have a hard time not committing murder in similar circumstances. Your patience will be rewarded,,, Cat'

I spoke to the mechanic about 9:30 this morning and that went OK... He was in his truck and already 3-4 hours down the road on the way to Missouri to pick-up a `09 motor with 16K - so that was good news. The motor is still in a crashed bike, so he's hoping to ride it enough to verify it runs and goes through all the gears. If its good, he was planning to pull the motor himself, and then get it back to his shop late this evening. Not sure if its at a salvage yard, or a private party, or what. Didn't think to ask while I had him on the phone. I asked him to shoot me a picture and call again on his way home.

I'll let you all know how it turns out.
 
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naustin
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Good for you,, Nick,, keeping your eye on the ball and the big picture in mind. I would have a hard time not committing murder in similar circumstances. Your patience will be rewarded,,, Cat'
Thanks for the support and optimism. I'm not naturally gifted with it....
 

ST Gui

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I'm not naturally gifted with it....
I feel your pain. I'm curious about the compatibility of the '09 motor though. Is the consensus that it's doable?
 

Mellow

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I feel your pain. I'm curious about the compatibility of the '09 motor though. Is the consensus that it's doable?
I'm guessing it is... I'm thinking the motors did not change at all but the ECU did change a little in 2008 so the wiring harness TO that changed. This is the first post of this kind I can remember for ST1300s so not a common thing to do in general much less crossing year models.
 

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Re: Coolant getting in oil

I wonder if over torquing one of the cam holder bolts could crack a cylinder head? I'd expect the head threads to strip first, but who knows. It's really hard to imagine what he could have done to cause this, even if he was a total numpty.


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may be he loosened on of the head bolts by accident and for got to tighten it
 
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Re: Cracked Cylinder

look carefully at the marks at the bottom of the head. Looks like something fell in to the cylinder. Something small and round, that is not melted. It also corresponds to the marks on the piston. With out a doubt something got in that cylinder. It's a perfect half moon. a As it got smashed between the piston and the head it "peened " out the edge of the piston and caused the wall to score and crack.
 
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Re: Cracked Cylinder

look carefully at the marks at the bottom of the head. Looks like something fell in to the cylinder. Something small and round, that is not melted. It also corresponds to the marks on the piston. With out a doubt something got in that cylinder. It's a perfect half moon. a As it got smashed between the piston and the head it "peened " out the edge of the piston and caused the wall to score and crack.
it was determined a couple of pages ago that a valve shim appears to have fallen into the cylinder. Lots of posts over a short period of time, you probably didn't read those replies.
 
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Re: Cracked Cylinder

it was determined a couple of pages ago that a valve shim appears to have fallen into the cylinder. Lots of posts over a short period of time, you probably didn't read those replies.
YEP !! Sorry
 
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Re: Cracked Cylinder

Sorry to hear about your incident. Even good shops make mistakes. Really good shops own them, sounds like what your guy is doing.
That being said, I'm dealing with a guy right now, who, against my advice, bought a used motor out of a rolled vehicle to replace his blown one. The swap out went great, dealt with a couple of minor things with the obd system for him, then a few days later the oil pressure dropped off. Pulled the pan, full of aluminum, it's got a bad bearing. I was contracted to just swap the motor, nothing more, nothing less. Working on pulling out the motor to tear out the crank and see if it and the block can be salvaged. But, I have to draw a line somewhere. This is not a freebie.
 
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naustin
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Murphy's Law, right.

My biggest dissappointment is that I'll have what amounts to somebody else's used bike when this is all done, and not much time to shake the bugs out before the 10 day trip I had planned to Colorado in early June. I really don't feel comfortable striking out on the 900 mile 1st day I had planned on a bike with a salvaged motor. Not sure I'll have time to put enough miles on it to get over that between now and then - and have to figure it out soon if I want to cancel all my reservations without penalty...

Once it's fixed, I am 1/2 considering taking it directly to the nearest dealership and trading it off on a new "whatever they happen to have". Which is really sad, because I planned to own this bike 10 more years, and I can't (in good conscience) afford to buy a brand new bike at the moment - just wasn't part of the family plan. It's not exactly a "must have" in the same way daycare and 529 plans are, ya know.

There I go.... Gotta hold it together! It will all work out and be good as new soon. :pray1:
 
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Seems to me that if he gives you the piston and cylinder head, you could easily take a valve shim and match it up with the indentations. Might not have to - it sounds like the guy is doing right for you. But we won't know this until you discuss costs with him. I've never LIKED admitting my mistakes to customers, but I've never shirked that responsibility either - offering to pay for damage I do while working in their house. It doesn't happen often, but mistakes happen. I would assume your mechanic is feeling the same way. Best to discuss it with him in a non confrontational way. Give him an opportunity to tell you exactly what he is doing and what he thinks about this.
 

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Murphy's Law, right.

My biggest dissappointment is that I'll have what amounts to somebody else's used bike when this is all done, and not much time to shake the bugs out before the 10 day trip I had planned to Colorado in early June. I really don't feel comfortable striking out on the 900 mile 1st day I had planned on a bike with a salvaged motor. Not sure I'll have time to put enough miles on it to get over that between now and then - and have to figure it out soon if I want to cancel all my reservations without penalty...

Once it's fixed, I am 1/2 considering taking it directly to the nearest dealership and trading it off on a new "whatever they happen to have". Which is really sad, because I planned to own this bike 10 more years, and I can't (in good conscience) afford to buy a brand new bike at the moment - just wasn't part of the family plan. It's not exactly a "must have" in the same way daycare and 529 plans are, ya know.

There I go.... Gotta hold it together! It will all work out and be good as new soon. :pray1:
ST engines are pretty bulletproof. The engines don't just have major issues and this one was what seems to be an obvious human error. The salvaged engine, if it's all runs and there are no leaks should be pretty solid. It doesn't take much to total out an ST and go to a salvage yard, just the plastic alone can do that once you start adding it up so there are very good odds the engine is as good if not better than your original as it does have half the miles.

I say if he's able to get it up and running, no leaks and no error codes being thrown and every thing works as it should then you take it out on a couple 250 mile rides and then a 500 mile ride and if it all looks good at that point, it should be good.

I would grab a few things from the old bike just to have for future maint. like the water pump seal and thermostat if the replacement already has those. As far as trading in goes, I'm curious if your bike will now be considered salvaged w/different engine or if that's only when it goes through insurance.

I think your mechanic should be able to get it all back together. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
 
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ST engines are pretty bulletproof. The engines don't just have major issues and this one was what seems to be an obvious human error. The salvaged engine, if it's all runs and there are no leaks should be pretty solid. It doesn't take much to total out an ST and go to a salvage yard, just the plastic alone can do that once you start adding it up so there are very good odds the engine is as good if not better than your original as it does have half the miles.

I say if he's able to get it up and running, no leaks and no error codes being thrown and every thing works as it should then you take it out on a couple 250 mile rides and then a 500 mile ride and if it all looks good at that point, it should be good.

I would grab a few things from the old bike just to have for future maint. like the water pump seal and thermostat if the replacement already has those. As far as trading in goes, I'm curious if your bike will now be considered salvaged w/different engine or if that's only when it goes through insurance.

I think your mechanic should be able to get it all back together. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Well, I tried to just quote the salvage/title part but Joe has a good point....I think you'll have to update the title to reflect the new VIN number...just an inspection at the DMV....good luck, should be a good swap.......ff
 

W0QNX

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Murphy's Law, right.

My biggest dissappointment is that I'll have what amounts to somebody else's used bike when this is all done, and not much time to shake the bugs out before the 10 day trip I had planned to Colorado in early June. I really don't feel comfortable striking out on the 900 mile 1st day I had planned on a bike with a salvaged motor. Not sure I'll have time to put enough miles on it to get over that between now and then - and have to figure it out soon if I want to cancel all my reservations without penalty...

Once it's fixed, I am 1/2 considering taking it directly to the nearest dealership and trading it off on a new "whatever they happen to have". Which is really sad, because I planned to own this bike 10 more years, and I can't (in good conscience) afford to buy a brand new bike at the moment - just wasn't part of the family plan. It's not exactly a "must have" in the same way daycare and 529 plans are, ya know.

There I go.... Gotta hold it together! It will all work out and be good as new soon. :pray1:
I wouldn't worry much, most ST's are well cared for by old men like you me and Mellow (haha). Crashes happen and the engines survive which is why they are so cheap to buy. Trade it off if you must but the trade in won't bring much or ride it the next ten years as you planned. I'll let you know in a another decade how long an ST engine will go with minimal maintenance. I just replaced my alternator a couples week ago at 208,000. Doesn't use any oil yet and still pulls an unexpected wheelie ever once in a while.
 
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