Bridgestone Battleax 170/60zr17F Failure

Gug

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Yesterday I was having a my tires installed by the same shop that has done my last 8-10 tire changes. The service guy comes in with my rear tire and said it was delaminating when he tried to put the tire on. He showed me on the tire machine the tool itself along with the plastic bumper to protect the rim. All looked fine to me and I felt to see if there were any rough edges that could have caught, but it was all smooth. I contacted Dennis Kirk and sent them in a couple pictures and they sent right back that it was operator error and not covered. I insisted they see the tire in person, otherwise I was out $130 some bucks with no recourse. The gal I spoke with said that process could take months to complete only to turn into the same decision. (Interesting that they already made their decision as not to replace it.)

Anyhow here are some pics of the damage. Your thoughts?
 

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Uncle Phil

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If I was just looking at the pictures, I would say 'tire machine' damage. I presume it was an 'automatic' machine and not a hand job. I'm not implying that is what happened, but looking at just the pictures, it sure looks that way. But if you are a regular customer of Dennis Kirk, I would thing they would do a little more than say 'you are up a polluted tributary without a means of propulsion.' :D
 

slmjim

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Which one today...?
One of the risks of online tire purchase to save a few bucks; lack of accountability. In the eyes of the vendor and the shop doing the mounting it's "your" tire. I'd be willing to bet that if the tire had been purchased at the shop doing the mounting you would be in a much stronger position for recourse.

Perhaps contact Bridgestone?

Good Ridin'
slmjim
 
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Gug

Gug

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Thnx for the feedback. My tire guy said he has only seen something like this happen a few times in all his years. Could he be protecting his interests, maybe, but in all the years I have dealt with him there was never a problem. He also has worked on my bike as well. So who knows???
 
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Gug

Gug

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One of the risks of online tire purchase to save a few bucks; lack of accountability. In the eyes of the vendor and the shop doing the mounting it's "your" tire. I'd be willing to bet that if the tire had been purchased at the shop doing the mounting you would be in a much stronger position for recourse.

Perhaps contact Bridgestone?

Good Ridin'
slmjim

I went on Bridgestones website and could not find a way to reach them directly. Not to mention the moto tab just sipplied an error message.
 

Mellow

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I agree w/UP... that looks like damage from not enough, or no, lube while installing. The BS tires are probably the toughest to install and I've had a tough time doing them even with a lot of lube on the nomar bar but I typically have to resort to the bar and some tire irons to keep from ripping the edges, just like in the pictures, and I've come pretty close. The rear BS tires on the Tenere are also very tough and then trying to get a seal to hold air after the change is tough...

That's not delamination as I understand it... I believe the tire guy just messed up and doesn't want to cough up the cost of a tire... sorry, that's how I see it from the pictures.

Looks like ST-Traveler is close to you, I would give him a shot assuming he's still offering tire changes:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?76712-NW-Ohio-tire-changes
 

Uncle Phil

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The motorcycle tire headquarters is located here in Nashville, TN where I live. They have even come over to my house to check out a tire problem I had (pre-GT tire versions). So they seem to be very responsive if you can reach them. Tim with Two Brothers made the connection for me. Here's what I can find -

http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/location/northamerica.html

Looks like here's a place to start -

535 Marriott Drive, Nashville TN 37214
Phone:+1-615-937-3334, Fax:+1-615-937-3431
 
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I think you've lost $130, unless someone puts there hands in the air and say it's my fault ( when did that last happen ) you are pretty much stuffed.
You could pay an "expert" to examine the tyre but the 130 would pale into insignificance.
Good luck sorting it.
In the UK I pay my tyre man/mechanic for the tyre and fitting and because he makes on the tyre fitting is peanuts.
Upt'North.
 
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One of the risks of online tire purchase to save a few bucks; lack of accountability. In the eyes of the vendor and the shop doing the mounting it's "your" tire. I'd be willing to bet that if the tire had been purchased at the shop doing the mounting you would be in a much stronger position for recourse.

Good Ridin'
slmjim
I agree with this assessment. I used to buy tires from the moto warehouses by phone years before the internet, but don't remember having ever ordered tires from a website. I've been having good luck using Cycle Gear the past few years - tell them what tire(s) I want in case they aren't in stock, remove the wheel(s) and take to the local Cycle Gear store and let them do the mounting.

edit: I'm not sure, but I think that Cycle Gear will also price-match internet prices.
 
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I witnessed this exact damage happen during a machine tire change- The edge tears from excessive force which occurs when the opposite tire lip isn't all the way into the ST's shallow rim valley. It's definitely an installation issue, though I doubt you'll get him to be accountable.

Mine weren't as bad as yours, only the over-molded rubber got torn, so I used them anyway. Your sealing edge as well as a couple cords are compromised, bummer!
 

Nashcat

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The tire in the first picture appears to be a different tire.
 

dduelin

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I had a similar "torn bead" during a Bridgestone BT-023 install several years ago. The shop was the local Honda dealer that I get tires mounted at - I buy tires online and bring the bike or just the wheels in to them to mount the tires. They said this kind of damage happens from time to time and offered to replace the tire. It was kind of inconvenient as I was addicted to 023s, were mounting a set of them prior to a CC50 attempt in one weeks' time, and the 023 was not in stock from their supplier. I settled for a T30 which they could get overnight (the T30 was new on the market then) and appreciated that they took responsibility. I have done business with them for years prior and since - the value of a good local relationship. They are Cycles of Jacksonville now.
 
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Gug

Gug

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If I was just looking at the pictures, I would say 'tire machine' damage. I presume it was an 'automatic' machine and not a hand job. I'm not implying that is what happened, but looking at just the pictures, it sure looks that way. But if you are a regular customer of Dennis Kirk, I would thing they would do a little more than say 'you are up a polluted tributary without a means of propulsion.' :D
One of the risks of online tire purchase to save a few bucks; lack of accountability. In the eyes of the vendor and the shop doing the mounting it's "your" tire. I'd be willing to bet that if the tire had been purchased at the shop doing the mounting you would be in a much stronger position for recourse.

Perhaps contact Bridgestone?

Good Ridin'
slmjim
I agree w/UP... that looks like damage from not enough, or no, lube while installing. The BS tires are probably the toughest to install and I've had a tough time doing them even with a lot of lube on the nomar bar but I typically have to resort to the bar and some tire irons to keep from ripping the edges, just like in the pictures, and I've come pretty close. The rear BS tires on the Tenere are also very tough and then trying to get a seal to hold air after the change is tough...

That's not delamination as I understand it... I believe the tire guy just messed up and doesn't want to cough up the cost of a tire... sorry, that's how I see it from the pictures.

Looks like ST-Traveler is close to you, I would give him a shot assuming he's still offering tire changes:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?76712-NW-Ohio-tire-changes
I agree with this assessment. I used to buy tires from the moto warehouses by phone years before the internet, but don't remember having ever ordered tires from a website. I've been having good luck using Cycle Gear the past few years - tell them what tire(s) I want in case they aren't in stock, remove the wheel(s) and take to the local Cycle Gear store and let them do the mounting.

edit: I'm not sure, but I think that Cycle Gear will also price-match internet prices.
I witnessed this exact damage happen during a machine tire change- The edge tears from excessive force which occurs when the opposite tire lip isn't all the way into the ST's shallow rim valley. It's definitely an installation issue, though I doubt you'll get him to be accountable.

Mine weren't as bad as yours, only the over-molded rubber got torn, so I used them anyway. Your sealing edge as well as a couple cords are compromised, bummer!
In getting the feedback from you folks, I gotta tell ya, you folks are good and I trust you. What you are saying makes perfect sense in hindsight and from the physical standpoint of that much pressure along with turning w/o sufiicient lube, it makes sense it could tear/cut. In the second pic a delamination would not be through the cord. In the pick to the left of my thumb on the edge I am pulling down, you can see the shaved off cords from the exposed upper section of that cut. Thanks for the feedback as always.
 
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Gug

Gug

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If I was just looking at the pictures, I would say 'tire machine' damage. I presume it was an 'automatic' machine and not a hand job. I'm not implying that is what happened, but looking at just the pictures, it sure looks that way. But if you are a regular customer of Dennis Kirk, I would thing they would do a little more than say 'you are up a polluted tributary without a means of propulsion.' :D
One of the risks of online tire purchase to save a few bucks; lack of accountability. In the eyes of the vendor and the shop doing the mounting it's "your" tire. I'd be willing to bet that if the tire had been purchased at the shop doing the mounting you would be in a much stronger position for recourse.

Perhaps contact Bridgestone?

Good Ridin'
slmjim
I agree w/UP... that looks like damage from not enough, or no, lube while installing. The BS tires are probably the toughest to install and I've had a tough time doing them even with a lot of lube on the nomar bar but I typically have to resort to the bar and some tire irons to keep from ripping the edges, just like in the pictures, and I've come pretty close. The rear BS tires on the Tenere are also very tough and then trying to get a seal to hold air after the change is tough...

That's not delamination as I understand it... I believe the tire guy just messed up and doesn't want to cough up the cost of a tire... sorry, that's how I see it from the pictures.

Looks like ST-Traveler is close to you, I would give him a shot assuming he's still offering tire changes:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?76712-NW-Ohio-tire-changes
I agree with this assessment. I used to buy tires from the moto warehouses by phone years before the internet, but don't remember having ever ordered tires from a website. I've been having good luck using Cycle Gear the past few years - tell them what tire(s) I want in case they aren't in stock, remove the wheel(s) and take to the local Cycle Gear store and let them do the mounting.

edit: I'm not sure, but I think that Cycle Gear will also price-match internet prices.
I witnessed this exact damage happen during a machine tire change- The edge tears from excessive force which occurs when the opposite tire lip isn't all the way into the ST's shallow rim valley. It's definitely an installation issue, though I doubt you'll get him to be accountable.

Mine weren't as bad as yours, only the over-molded rubber got torn, so I used them anyway. Your sealing edge as well as a couple cords are compromised, bummer!
The tire in the first picture appears to be a different tire.
It is the same tire. The 1st pic is of the outside damage, the last teo are of the inside of that tire.
 

T_C

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Yep, installer issue. BTDT.

A local shop installed a BT-45 front for me. Every few days I had to add air. Took forever to fid the leak as it was coming out of the sidewall where the date stamp was.

Bridgestone replaced the tire.

Back at the MC store, they removed the tire and put on the new one. Looked at the old and it was torn just like yours. The air was getting into the cords and then followed them to the weakest point in the casement and coming out there.

Before I left with the new tire I laid it down and put some soap water on the rim. Had some leaks at the rim, I figured they didn't clean the rim. I asked if we could demount it and fix that, I'd even help. We went in back and peeled the tire off and there was the same type of tear, not as bad, but there. I took a scotch brite and cleaned up the rim, they obviously did not. we mounted the tire and all was good.

Haven't been back to that shop. Last I heard I think they went under. Gee... wonder why...
 

st1300doug

What is the DATE CODE? Could be getting dry-rot and shredded on install? But, sure looks like a tear to me by the installer. Mmmm...hope you get your $$$$ back. Good Luck!
 
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From just looking at the pictures, this is purely the error of the person installing your tire.
A combination of not enough lube, heat, and/or patience and incorrect technique. I would first ask the business he works for to pay to replace the tire.

Not making excuses for all of this, but Bridgestone MC tires are notorious for stiff sidewalls and tight beads and are, in my experience, the most difficult brand to mount.

I cannot see DK or Bridgestone replacing a tire for damage due to incorrect mounting technique, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

This might be a good time to invest in some tire changing equipment, or make friends with someone who has it. I found it to be one of the best investments I have made.
 
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