Safety Tip

Guilty of fueling while wife and I are both on bike, but usually get off to do so. I have been very leery while refueling hot lawn mowers ever since I saw a severely burned woman being loaded into a rescue helicopter because of that. No reason the same can't happen to a motorcycle.

I've filled my ST1100s for many years while sitting on them due to various physical afflictions in my lower extremities. But then I've been know to run with scissors also ...

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This.

It amazes me sometimes, at the enthusiasm people will use when posting their opinions.

Reference to peoples choice of gas tank filling​ and Darwin awards or "common sense".

Yet others just post without judgement........

I fill my tank all three ways and will continue to do so depending on my need for speed.....

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And this.

I'll just remember when I'm racing on the Isle of Man on a high powered race bike running hotter than blazes to get off and take my walking stick with me before I let someone else fuel it.

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And this. ALL of this.

The odds of being injured or killed in a collision solo vehicle or otherwise are probably 1,000,000x greater or more than gas-pump self-immolation but people get on a motorcycle anyway. Where's the 'common sense' in that. I mean... if we were really concerned about safety... Geeze.

I really don't think this is much of a problem by itself. The flash point of gasoline vapor is 536 degrees F. It isn't likely that your bike will be at this temp unless it is on fire already.
That said, sources of ignition would be static from scooting across the seat, lighting up a smoke, or refueling with the engine running AND producing an exposed electrical arc somewhere.....all only if the concentration of gasoline vapor in the air is sufficient.

And there's this:

"Fire Hazard from Filling Portable Gas Cans in Pickup Trucks and Cars"

"In recent incidents reported to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), fires spontaneously ignited when workers or others attempted to fill portable gasoline containers (gas cans) in the backs of pickup trucks equipped with plastic bed liners or in cars with carpeted surfaces. Serious skin burns and other injuries resulted. Similar incidents in the last few years have resulted in warning bulletins from several private and government organizations. These fires result from the buildup of static electricity. The insulating effect of the bed liner or carpet prevents the static charge generated by gasoline flowing into the container or other sources from grounding. The discharge of this buildup to the grounded gasoline dispenser nozzle may cause a spark and ignite the gasoline. Both ungrounded metal (most hazardous) and plastic gas containers have been involved in these incidents."

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-111/pdfs/98-111.pdf

Is a bike is grounded through it's centerstand or sidestand? My guess is yes.

If the Rider is supporting the bike upright using both feet, the only contacts are the tires, the rubber soles of their boots and the pump nozzle at the end of a rubber hose. Would that situation present a similar static discharge threat as described in the CDC document because there is no path to ground?

Good Ridin'
slmjim

"Is a bike is grounded through it's centerstand or sidestand? My guess is yes.

If the Rider is supporting the bike upright using both feet, the only contacts are the tires, the rubber soles of their boots and the pump nozzle at the end of a rubber hose. Would that situation present a similar static discharge threat as described in the CDC document because there is no path to ground?" I'll have to remember to put my side stand down on my car....for grounding purposes....ff

flyfisher said:

I'll have to remember to put my side stand down on my car....for grounding purposes....ff

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Good Ridin'
slmjim

Oldbikefixr said:

The flash point of gasoline vapor is 536 degrees F.

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I'm usually not nit-picky, but in this case, I will be - there is a significant difference between the auto-ignition temperature of gasoline and it's flash point. The figure quoted is the later, and is the temperature at which gasoline WILL ignite, given sufficient oxygen. The flash point is considerably lower, usually around -40F. It does require some kind of ignition source and proper concentration, as outlined, to get things started. That being said, I agree the over all risk is low.

For my part, I welcome the dissemination of information that allows riders to consciously choose which risks they choose to expose themselves to, and which they don't. I choose to ride AAATGATT (Almost Always All The Gear All The Time), conscious of the fact that I increase my risk for the sake of comfort when I choose to disregard one of my non-regulated protective items. IMO, this discussion thread is serving the purpose of providing information. Opinions vary by individuals, risk comfort levels and personal circumstances. But it's great for readers to know that there is a risk factor, however remote, when refueling aSTride.

I remember in the earlier days of CB radio (loooong before The Duck) seeing grounding straps on cars in an attempt to reduce static. I also saw big rigs with grounding chains on the trailers. I haven't seen either in many many years.

Coincidentally, I just read a thread on TWT about a bike "catching fire while at a gas pump". Not sure what the cause was though, may have been a wiring harness issue and not anything to do with fuel.

We stopped for gas and Jeff's bike wiring harness went up in smoke and flames.

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Yeah I'd say jumping to the conclusion of fueling being at fault would be a mistake.

Shoot, there are times I don't even shut the engine off let alone climb off and pop up on the center stand!

What ever happened to all the warning signs saying not to be holding a cell phone while fueling or you'll blow up?

Unless I'm two up I almost always fill while straddling. Will continue to do so. Cars mount the gas tank right next to hot exhaust, without an actual ignition source not a problem. The fuel vents and cools itself off in the process. Sure the fumes are explosive too, so don't use your cell-phone (just kidding)!

ST Gui said:

Yeah I'd say jumping to the conclusion of fueling being at fault would be a mistake.

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Agreed, thus the last part of my post, but there's a little more to the story... "... or Jeff's bike catching fire while at gas pump."

Will have to wait and see if there's more discussion about the fire. Perhaps the harness sparked and caused gas fumes to ignite? Without an accelerant, it's not impossible but it's pretty remote that just a harness short will cause a bike to "go up in flames", especially with fuses on just about every circuit.

We did have a bike go up in flames from gas. But like a possible wire harness, the gas wasn't the start. It was the open end wrench stored in the underseat toolkit. It vibrated out and fell across the battery positive terminal and the frame, it was right next to a fuel line. As the battery discharged itself through the wrench and got it glowing it melted the fuel line. The gas did hit ignition point and while burning, pooled under the bike. Of course the bike (a little Kawasaki street 100) was parked in our walkout basement right next to a pile of 200 2x4 and 2x6 we were using for finishing said basement.

The neighbor happened to be out in his driveway behind their house (couldn't smoke indoors). He saw the reflection of the flames in the old Chevy Blazer we used to park in back under the sundeck. He called the fire department. Not what we wanted.

By the time the fire crew showed up my father and brothers had the fire out. But the crew insisted on ventilating the house and put their fans in the upstairs windows, drawing all the smoke from the basement, up the stairs, all through the house and out the dining room windows.

Momma was not happy!

Wow, that's quite a cascade of failures T_C! Too bad about the actions of the FD... they shouldn't have pulled all that smoke through the house!

In the interest of fueling speculation I'll opine that it only takes one bad farkle wiring job or a chafe in the wrong spot to overheat and set a harness smoking or even ablaze and no amount of additional fuses will matter.

Based on the one statement about that fire at this point I'll assume at this point the 'smoke and flames' were coincidental to the location and not the result of it until there's information to the contrary. I'm comfortable with this especially since the wiring harness was specifically mentioned and not the bike itself.

Not what we wanted.

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Understandable given the outcome but from your neighbor's position 'wait and see' just isn't a consideration. If he hadn't been there in the first place...

Knowing nothing of fire science and firefighting I'd have thunk ventilating though a basement window would have been sufficient.

Blrfl said:

The other reason you fill the bike on the stand (either one) is so that if there is a fire, you won't drop the bike on its side during your getaway and add whatever spills out of the tank as fuel.



--Mark

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Exactly

Sure would be nice if Honda would come out with a new ST real soon, then we would have more important things to argue about.

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I don't think it has ever occurred to me to fill my bike while sitting on it. When I pull in for fuel, getting off to stretch my legs and perhaps use the biffy is the norm - especially on a bike with the range of the ST.

Having seen that video, I'll stick with that practice I think.