Clutch bearings??

Hi
new to all this so please bear with me!
Ok so riding along bike has a slight squeak we laughed thinking it was the car infront - karma - bike starts making an awful knocking sound . Thought it was the driveshaft so stripped it all back but everything is fine , then through reading these posts we did the screwdriver on the ear trick and its loudest at the clutch area.
Remember my hubby is not a mechanic, we have now taken the clutch apart , the clutch rlease cylinder had thick cloudy fluid in , but anything further in the clutch was clean , plates look ok a little dirty but we think they're ok, clutch basket is out and it looks ok but if you spin the bearing in the basket it does make a clicky noise is this normal? Would this be audible whilst riding?? Also does anyone know how many plates we should have and we can't seem to find anti judder spring !! We've ridden with no problems for 2 years up until now and bless Pete he's only done 50,000 miles, any ideas ??

Pilliongirl said:

Hi
new to all this so please bear with me!
Ok so riding along bike has a slight squeak we laughed thinking it was the car infront - karma - bike starts making an awful knocking sound . Thought it was the driveshaft so stripped it all back but everything is fine , then through reading these posts we did the screwdriver on the ear trick and its loudest at the clutch area.
Remember my hubby is not a mechanic, we have now taken the clutch apart , the clutch rlease cylinder had thick cloudy fluid in , but anything further in the clutch was clean , plates look ok a little dirty but we think they're ok, clutch basket is out and it looks ok but if you spin the bearing in the basket it does make a clicky noise is this normal? Would this be audible whilst riding?? Also does anyone know how many plates we should have and we can't seem to find anti judder spring !! We've ridden with no problems for 2 years up until now and bless Pete he's only done 50,000 miles, any ideas ??

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Hi again: I'm sure that there a lot of folks on the forum who'd be pleased and very able to help but it would be good include the type and Year of bike and perhaps some photos as well. Posting them is easy - and it sure makes things quicker. Also, did you search in the technical section for "clutch noises"?

Ok sorry concentrating on the detail and forgot main ones!!
W reg 2000 Pan European ST1100
thanks Hun xx

Pillion.
If you've ridden it for the last two years then chances are all the parts are present and correct. I.E. number of plates. If in doubt check schematics at CMS NL site. I think it's ten friction and 9 steel. But check.
The noise you describe from the bearing doesn't sound good.
You have done the hard work but whilst it's apart you might ( IMO ) as well get a clutch repair kit from Silvers, if the bearing is shot replace it and I would also change the Slave cylinder or rebuild it with a service kit.
If you post the pics as per Max Pete I am sure you will get further advice.
Good luck.
Upt'North.

No bearings should make noise when you move them. Spinning by hand is, I believe (but don't know for a fact) ok - but never use compressed air to spin a bearing. Dry with comp air, ok, but don't allow it to spin dry at high speed (or so I've been told). Better to hold the bearing and gently turn it slowly. It should feel smooth as it turns. Any roughness at all is bad. It should not feel dry, either, (unless you just cleaned it in solvent). And if you clean it with solvents, immediately grease it or oil it to prevent any corrosion.

I assume you will flush the hydraulic clutch lines with new fluid.

Do you see any problems here?

Pilliongirl said:

Do you see any problems here?

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I'm not familiar with the 1100, but does that look like a damaged roller bearing bottom right in the center of the clutch basket?

So if that's the cause would you be able to change that bearing? Haven't had much luck finding out, anyone know where to get one?really appreciating your input thank you

If it's the needle bearing in the basket/collar you are referring to then CMS have genuine for 16 euros plus tax etc.
I have never changed one but someone will have done.
Try PM Igofar he may be able to assist.
Upt'North.

Yes, agreed - and that would explain the noise.

To remove and reinstall a bearing like that is a simple task - if you have a press (every decent shop will have one). It should not cost much to have the old one pushed out and a new one pressed (carefully) in.

I'm looking at the third photo. In the centre of that housing, on the race (or at least what looks like a race) that appears to be attached to the sprocket, it looks as if there's a bearing that runs on that race. Looking carefully at that race, it appears as if the surface of that race is uneven - it has the look that there's a bearing that runs on that race that is worn. If you run your finger over those (what appear to be) irregular hollows, if you can feel them, there's a problem. If that's the case, said bearing and that race will need to be replaced. That's what it looks like on the photo. I don't even know if that is in fact a race or not.

I hope this makes sense - if not, PM me and I'll try to clarify.

Thank you so much will sort it asap!! Let you know how we go xx

Thank you so much will sort it asap!! Let you know how we go xx

Well I just thought I'd let you all know problems are not solved Lots of head scratching going on , all clutch parts appear to be new so Hubby's putting it all back together , taken 4attempts already as can't pull clutch lever easily woops!!
Gonna have to put out a cry for help
with a bike mechanic as we are at a loss as to the problem!! Hoping it's nothing major as don't want to see a good friend go!!

Nothing was worn by the way it was my awful camera angle. Defo not a photographer

Ok hi again HELP!!
So hubby has put clutch back together several times but now the back wheel won't turn probably overlooked something any suggestions? Can't start bike as it's empty of fluids until problems are solved. Please offer any insights you may have he's close to blowing his top now !!

Pilliongirl said:

So hubby has put clutch back together several times but now the back wheel won't turn probably overlooked something any suggestions

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The most obvious and silliest question to have to ask, but is the transmission in neutral?

Pilliongirl said:

Ok hi again HELP!!
So hubby has put clutch back together several times but now the back wheel won't turn probably overlooked something any suggestions? Can't start bike as it's empty of fluids until problems are solved. Please offer any insights you may have he's close to blowing his top now !!

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Hi PillionGirl:

I concur with the above query - is the bike actually in neutral? (An easy way to tell is if the green neutral light is on). If so, then the rear wheel isn't going to turn at all - ever - until the bike is clicked into one of the five forward gears.

The other way to to tell is - if you try to rotate the rear wheel by hand - is there any resistance? If the bike is in gear and the clutch is engaged (i.e. hand OFF the clutch lever) - then the rear wheel should not rotate - because you will run up against the engine compression. BTW - if the bike is in gear and the clutch is working properly, I very much doubt that you will be able to turn the engine over with the wheel.

Another point on this matter:

I assume your hubby is turning the crankshaft with a spanner and watching for the rear wheel to turn - and that makes sense - BUT - the rear wheel is geared pretty low compared to the crankshaft. For every turn of the crank, there is the primary drive ratio (between the crank and the transmission input shaft), the first gear ratio (assuming the bike is in first gear) and the rear end final drive ratio, to consider.

So - I looked it up for an ST1100 and here are the numbers:

- PRIMARY RATIO: 1.829:1

- FIRST GEAR: 2.266:1

- FINAL DRIVE: 2.833:1

All of that means that for the rear wheel to go around just once - you would need to rotate the crank shaft waaaayyyy up at the front end of the engine a total of (1.829 x 2.266 x 2.833) = 11.73 times or nearly 12 full revolutions.

So....my question is - have you given the crankshaft enough of a turn to determine that things are - or are not - working properly? If you rotate the crankshaft only through a partial revolution, say.....90 degrees (1/4 of a revolution), the rear wheel would only turn through about 7.5 degrees - which may not be enough to even take-up the slack in the gear train. I would suggest that you give the crank AT LEAST 5-10 full revolutions before deciding anything.

Just a thought....

Pete

MaxPete said:

is the bike actually in neutral? (An easy way to tell is if the green neutral light is on). If so, then the rear wheel isn't going to turn at all - ever - until the bike is clicked into one of the five forward gears.

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This had me scratching my head, until I saw you were referring to turning the wheel, through the engine drive train. I was coming from the perspective that they were trying to move the rear wheel by hand.

Yup - at least, I assume that he is trying to check the clutch function by turning the crankshaft with a wrench (spanner in the UK) - and observe motion through the tranny at the rear wheel. If the tranny is in neutral - you won't get anything at the wheel and in any event, you have to turn that crankshaft through a lot of revolutions (nearly 12 as shown above) get one revolution at the wheel if the transmission is in first gear.

Anyhow - I guess we'll have to wait for their reply. It is around 4-5:00 AM in the UK right now and I imagine the poor guy is in bed exhausted.