To Dremel or not to Dremel - That is the Question

Uncle Phil

Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
11,250
Age
71
Location
In The Holler West Of Nashville, Tennessee
Bike
4 ST1100(s)
2024 Miles
002064
STOC #
698
I'm in the midst of the G6 EVITEK installation on my ST1100s and decide that I would pull the headlight and 'Dremel' it so the H4s fit without the ring and bend the wire bail to fit. Fortunately, I have an old unit to play with. It appears (look closely at the pictures) that when I 'dremel' for the left lower tab I would have to remove most of the housing for the screw that holds the wire bail. What am I missing? Did Honda change the headlight assembly after 1995? When I look at a 'real' H4 bulb, the cut would have to be more dramatic.
 

Attachments

Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
3,512
Location
British Columbia
Bike
2021 RE Meteor 350
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

Doesn't seem worth the hassle to me, compared to just snipping off tabs and using the ring. But that's just me.
 

paulcb

- - - Tetelestai - - - R.I.P. - 2022/05/26
Rest In Peace
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
4,652
Location
Celina, TX
Bike
'97/'01 ST1100 ABSII
STOC #
8735
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

Doesn't seem worth the hassle to me, compared to just snipping off tabs and using the ring. But that's just me.
+1. As long as you have the shims, snipping the tabs is too easy.
 

DJDixon

Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
190
Location
Pahrump, NV (~ 60 North of Las Vegas)
Bike
2020 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000927
STOC #
571
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

I remember something about having to move the bail to the other side of the assembly when you alter it for a standard H4 pattern - I think you need to move the screw to the other hole - If I am remembering right. I tried to search for it just now and came up empty, but I know I saw it somewhere...
 

Dave.David

Rider
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Messages
716
Location
SB California USA
Bike
05,ST1300-04VTX1800R
STOC #
8938
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

Doesn't the book called for a H7? Why do people use the H4 instead?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
5,046
Location
soCal
Bike
'97 ST1100
STOC #
687
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

Doesn't the book called for a H7? Why do people use the H4 instead?
The stock bulb is 45W/45W and costs something like $30. A standard H4 bulb is 55W/60W and costs about $10. More light, less money, buy them at the corner auto parts instead of ordering online or going to the Honda dealer.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,111
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

What are the advantages to grinding the slot for the G6 lamps? Once installed, the LEDs should outlast halogen lamps, and you probably won't need to replace it anytime soon. And if you snip off the tabs, why do you need the shim? Does the tab less lamp fit farther into the headlight shell? There is still the tab at 12 oclock for positioning.
 

John OoSTerhuis

Life Is Good!
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
5,218
Location
Bettendorf, Iowa
Bike
1991 SSMST1100
STOC #
1058
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

IIRC, I moved the wire bail when I Dremelled mine for H4s back in the laST century. I no longer have that headlight module to verify/take a pic. You'll figure it out, Phil.

John
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
3,512
Location
British Columbia
Bike
2021 RE Meteor 350
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

What are the advantages to grinding the slot for the G6 lamps? Once installed, the LEDs should outlast halogen lamps, and you probably won't need to replace it anytime soon. And if you snip off the tabs, why do you need the shim? Does the tab less lamp fit farther into the headlight shell? There is still the tab at 12 oclock for positioning.
The problem with snipping the tabs and NOT using the shim is that the bulb will twist somewhat in the socket, with only the one stable point, after the wire bail is clamped in place, causing the light from the bulb to be out of its proper alignment with the reflector and lens.
 
OP
OP
Uncle Phil

Uncle Phil

Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
11,250
Age
71
Location
In The Holler West Of Nashville, Tennessee
Bike
4 ST1100(s)
2024 Miles
002064
STOC #
698
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

Thanks for the link. I knew there was something I was missing - moving the wire bail. Now I'll have to cogitate over this approach.
BTW, I already have the shims as I've run H4s for a long time. Just trying to decide since I have the headlight out, which way to go.
I wonder if moving the bail wire makes it any easier to unhook ... :D
Also, I don't have a confidence level that the G6 Eviteks are going to 'last a lifetime'. If I'm out on the road and push comes to shove, it would be nice just to pull them and put in a standard H4 if need be.
Thanks for all of the inputs.
 
Last edited:

ST Gui

240Robert
Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
9,262
Location
SF-Oakland CA
Bike
ST1300, 2010
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

Uncle Phil said:
Also, I don't have a confidence level that the G6 Eviteks are going to 'last a lifetime'.
I agree. LEDs can easily last longer than an incandescent in some situations. But high-power LEDs for headlights haven't been around all that long— at least not a 'lifetime' whatever that's supposed to be.

Manufacturers' specs say anywhere from 30K-50K hours. And just because an LED can potentially last that long doesn't mean every manufacturer's build will be a good one.

CFL were supposed to outlast incandescents by several years but I haven't seen it. With car manufacturers using LEDs has headlights we may finally get some reliable real world data.


Does the tab less lamp fit farther into the headlight shell? There is still the tab at 12 oclock for positioning.
As I understand it you're exactly right. The 1100's bulb rests on the three tabs. You can see the corresponding points in Unc's pics. Cut two off and the bulb can angle down into the shell and point up. The shim with all three tabs and properly spaced provides a level Japanese H4 base for the European H4 bulb. The 1300's bulbs don't rest on the tabs but on the round bass on the front of the bulb. Some H4 bulbs have to metal tabs at 6 o'clock the need to be flattened for the bulb to be flat in the enclosure.

An H7 bulb is a single filament bulb used for used for separate beams as for the GoldWing. Japanese H4s (p43t-38/HB2/9003) and European H4s (p43t) are dual filament.

Dremeling makes sense to me. There's a headlight assembly out in the open to experiment with. If a G6 fails a cheap H4 from PepBoys Auto Zone or where ever can be popped in. If the G6s do last forever then modding like insurance is wasted. But it's only time.

Or Unc can do the shim-me with his 1100s.
 

ST Gui

240Robert
Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
9,262
Location
SF-Oakland CA
Bike
ST1300, 2010
Re: TO DREMEL OR NOT TO DREMEL - THAT IS THE QUESTION!

Uncle Phil said:
Also, I don't have a confidence level that the G6 Eviteks are going to 'last a lifetime'.
I agree. LEDs can easily last longer than an incandescent in some situations. But high-power LEDs for headlights haven't been around all that long— at least not a 'lifetime' whatever that's supposed to be.

Manufacturers' specs say anywhere from 30K-50K hours. And just because an LED can potentially last that long doesn't mean every manufacturer's build will be a good one.

CFL were supposed to outlast incandescents by several years but I haven't seen it. With car manufacturers using LEDs has headlights we may finally get some reliable real world data.


Does the tab less lamp fit farther into the headlight shell? There is still the tab at 12 oclock for positioning.
As I understand it you're exactly right. The 1100's bulb rests on the three tabs. You can see the corresponding points in Unc's pics. Cut two off and the bulb can angle down into the shell and point up. The shim with all three tabs and properly spaced provides a level Japanese H4 base for the European H4 bulb. The 1300's bulbs don't rest on the tabs but on the round bass on the front of the bulb. Some H4 bulbs have to metal tabs at 6 o'clock the need to be flattened for the bulb to be flat in the enclosure.

An H7 bulb is a single filament bulb used for used for separate beams as for the GoldWing. Japanese H4s (p43t-38/HB2/9003) and European H4s (p43t) are dual filament.

Dremeling makes sense to me. There's a headlight assembly out in the open to experiment with. If a G6 fails a cheap H4 from PepBoys Auto Zone or wherever can be popped in. If the G6s do last forever then modding like insurance is wasted. But it's only time.

Or Unc can do the shim-me with his 1100s.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,111
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
Thank you, Bush, Phil, and Robert. Now I understand. Silly me. With all the hype about LED's (at least for residential use) lasting 25K, 50K or more hours, it never occurred to me that these Chinese made headlamps for cars would not similarly last a lifetime (well, at least for me, given the distance I ride in a year). And, even for high mileage guys, 30K miles probably means around 700 hours of bulb time. I'm not kidding, bulb failure due to age never crossed my mind (it did due to power supply failure or a defect).

Unlike some of you guys, changing the bulbs for me has been a major hassle. I have not been able to do it with the fairing on, and have only done it twice with the fairing off. Each time it has taken more minutes than I want to admit here (well the first one, the second goes much faster). Change lamps on the road? Probably not for me - there are two headlights and I have auxiliary under the mirror lights and fork lights that should see me home or to a place where I can do this at my leisure or at least safely remove the fairing. And, no, unlike something like emergency full on stops, I don't want to practice bulb changing.
 
OP
OP
Uncle Phil

Uncle Phil

Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
11,250
Age
71
Location
In The Holler West Of Nashville, Tennessee
Bike
4 ST1100(s)
2024 Miles
002064
STOC #
698
Since I already have the H4 shims, I've decided to forgo the 'dremeling' as I don't like to make mods to the ST1100 that I can't 'reverse' and the shims have never caused any trouble. I've done 'on the road' (actually at the motel) headlight bulb changes (no choice - both died) on a long trip and it's not pleasant. In fact, I couldn't get the bail loose on one of them, so I made it home with one headlight. It appears (and I'll find out) that swapping bulbs in the G6 units would be easier than swapping out a H4 (don't have to fiddle with the bail). Of course then you wonder about the 'ballast' and the fan and how long they will last ... :D At least with the shims, I can stop by a local auto parts and pick some H4s up if need be on the road. I plan a long road trip in June so I'll at least know how they hold up on a 7,000 mile, daily riding trip!
 

John OoSTerhuis

Life Is Good!
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
5,218
Location
Bettendorf, Iowa
Bike
1991 SSMST1100
STOC #
1058
I wonder if moving the bail wire makes it any easier to unhook ...
Heh heh... no, it didn't. But in 23 years I've never had a bulb burn out. Every time I've removed a bulb it was to try a different wattage, install an HID, or swap over to a replacement Euro headlight module; and the whole module was laying on my lap.

I've always recommended that any aftermarket/non-OEM bulb should have its filaments-to-bulb base distances (high and low beam) carefully measured and compared to the Honda OEM bulb's. 1, 2, or even 3mm difference (too deep/too shallow, relative to the reflector/fresnel lens) can throw the light beams off badly and create odd artifacts. Some of the early dual-beam HIDs had an adjustment feature for this purpose.

Also, note that all bulbs' tabs are not flat, but are convex at their root/base. Failure to "dish" the slots for H4s' tabs when modifying the USA headlight module may cause the rest of the bulb base not to seat flush, thereby canting the bulb resulting in the filaments moving out of optimal position. Similarly, when using shims with H4s, after snipping he bottom tabs be sure to flatten any remaining part of the tab so the bulb fits flat/flush to the module bulb recess/socket.

FWIW YMMV

Good find on Bob Peloquin's mod and pictures. Those pics are somewhere in my archives... I used the article in the ST1100 Newsletter to do mine. Love my Dremel rotary tool! Esssential 'kit' for any serious farkler.

John
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom