Clutch slipping after long term storage

esdinges · Apr 30, 2017

Hello everyone,

I just brought my 2006 ST1300 out of 5 years of storage. I replaced all fluids, tires, brakes, ect. The bike started with no problem and runs good. I used Rotella T6 for the oil replacement. (I think I used T5 or T4 before but I can't remember. Been too long and I lost my records) The bike has 24000 miles on it.

My first test ride I started slow and took it easy in case something went wrong. I made it about 4 miles and decided to return home to check for any leaks and what not. When I turned around, I gave it a little gas to check acceleration and the clutch slipped. At first I thought it was just my left hand technique as it had been awhile and I am not as smooth as I used to be. As I continued down the road, the clutch was continuing to slip as I drove normally. I had one red light to go through and coming from a standstill I was tempted to use my feet to help the ST get going because the clutch was not grabbing. I was going 35 mph in 2nd or 3rd and the rpms where around 5000. I really didn't think I was going to make it back. By the time I rolled into the driveway, the clutch would not help the bike move forward at all and had to push into the garage. I am glad that I returned when I did.

Is it possible that the Rosella T6 is causing the slippage or do clutches go bad after sitting for so long?

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Eric

MaxPete · Apr 30, 2017

Hmmmmm....well, I cannot see any reason why a clutch would simply start to slip just because of the storage period.

I'm not familiar with Rotella T6 - I suggest you have a look at the botttle and see if there is a roundish label anywhere on it that says something like: "Energy Saving" or "Resource Conserving" or anything like that. Some new grades of oil (usually synthetics) have an addititive package to reduce friction (which is a good thing) that is so effective that it makes wet clutches slip (and that is a bad thing).

I have a bottle of synthetic in my stock (for the Miata) and it has such a label - here is a photo of it.

Anyhow, this issue does come up on motorcycles and if that is the problem, it seems that if you change the oil promptly to a NON-energy conserving grade, the clutch will return to normal.

Upt' North · Apr 30, 2017

+1 Max Pete.
I would think the oil is the culprit, it's got to be worth changing it to acknowledged acceptable oils. I think T6 is the low friction type as described by Max Pete. Although shouldn't all oils be low friction?
Good luck.
Upt'North.

pumper316 · Apr 30, 2017

It's not the oil!

I've been using Shell Rotella T6 on every bike I've owned in the last 6 years including the ST, 3 Honda Valkyries, and 2 Shadows. All my bikes shift(ed) very smoothly with absolutely NO slipping.

Upt' North · Apr 30, 2017

Doesn't T6 come for different applications, what one is ok for bikes, i don't know.
Perhaps pumper can clarify.
Upt'North.

pumper316 · Apr 30, 2017

There is only variant of T6. It's primarily geared towards diesel engines and as such does not have any of the friction modifiers (energy saving) that will cause any slippage in wet clutches. Rotella T6 is also JASO MA/MA2 certified which makes it perfectly safe to be used in motorcyles.

http://rotella.shell.com/products/t6-full-synthetic.html

esdinges · Apr 30, 2017

Thanks for the replies. Before using Rotella T6, I had checked this site to make sure it is ok for motorcycle use.

The Honda service manual states probable causes for clutch slippage under acceleration could be cause by:
Hydraulic system sticking (?)
Worn clutch disc
Weak clutch spring
Improper oil

When I first started my test ride, the clutch acted normal, at least I think it did because I didn't try hard acceleration, but it still pulled the bike. It wasn't until a couple of miles until this slippage occurred. Is it possible that heat caused the discs to fail or the spring to become weak? I don't know what "sticking hydraulic system" would be.

My bike does not have that many miles (24000) but could age (2006 model) cause the spring to become weak or disc failure?

Eric

Kevin_56 · Apr 30, 2017

You will hear this more than once. Bleed the Clutch system. Easy to do as there is only one bleeder and easy to get at. You can use the Motion Pro, a Vacuum pump or the old fashion method of open the bleeder, apply pressure on clutch lever - close bleeder before lever reaches the end of the stroke and repeat. Apply pressure before opening the bleeder to reduce the chance of air entering the bleeder.

Stored for 5 years. May not hurt to change the oil as a precaution to age of sitting. I too have been using T6 for the last 100k miles with no clutch issues.

Unless you do lots of drag strip starts, burn outs, etc. The miles on the bike should not have bad disks or springs.

bdalameda · Apr 30, 2017

Check and see if there is any play in the clutch lever or if it is solid without play. If there is no play between the lever and cylinder piston you may have the master cylinder orifice plugged in the clutch cylinder. This is not the first time I have seen this happen. If you had any debris in the clutch cylinder reservoir it can become dislodged and hang up in the small hole that feeds into the clutch mater cylinder piston. This can cause the pressure to build up in the clutch line and hold the clutch on. Usually this starts as just clutch slipping and then can progress to holding the clutch on so far the clutch cannot engage at all. It is easy to pull the cap off the clutch fluid reservoir and get a small wire or paper clip and clear out this hole. I would suggest removing the master cylinder/ lever assembly and getting circlip pliers and removing the piston to fully clean out the housing and piston assembly.

pumper316 · Apr 30, 2017

When was the last time the clutch was bled? If it wasn't in the last 5 years, then that's were you should start. It wouldn't be a bad idea to even rebuild the master cylinder.

MaxPete · Apr 30, 2017

Agreed - if the oil is OK as others have confirmed, then bleeding the clutch hydraulic system is the next obvious (and easy) thing to do.

It is very unlikely that the springs or clutch discs have deteriorated due to the storage period.

bdalameda · Apr 30, 2017

If the orifice in the clutch master cylinder is plugged sometimes even bleeding it will not cure the problem. It will need to be cleaned out before it can operate correctly. This does not happen very often but I have seen this happen a few times. When the fluid cannot pass back into the reservoir when the clutch is released, due to a blockage, it will build enough pressure to hold the clutch on.

pumper316 · Apr 30, 2017

I've seen a lot of instances where the master cylinders haven't been bled/maintained in a long time and there's usually sludge formation at the bottom of the cylinders. This can definitely cause blockage.

Igofar · May 1, 2017

bdalameda said:
If the orifice in the clutch master cylinder is plugged sometimes even bleeding it will not cure the problem. It will need to be cleaned out before it can operate correctly. This does not happen very often but I have seen this happen a few times. When the fluid cannot pass back into the reservoir when the clutch is released, due to a blockage, it will build enough pressure to hold the clutch on.

st1300r · May 1, 2017

Doubt the t6 had anything to do with it. Many folks use it for way more than 24,000 miles.
I'd lean towards the clogged port and clean flush as the 1st step. Also check the condition of the clutch handle brass bushing/piston/rubber boot, since you're there anyway.
It's possible that since it wasn't fully engaged the friction material is now cooked but that wasn't the initial problem.

If clearing possible blockages and flushing the system doesn't get it back then you'd need to pull the cover off to get to the clutch. If it comes to that make sure to post back for tips on that job.

esdinges · May 1, 2017

Hi again,

I bled the clutch a couple of days ago. The reservoir was low and sediment was visible at the bottom. I sucked out the sediment and I had no problems bleeding but...
During my test ride, the bike shifted with no problems. Felt "normal". Today, while on center stand, I started the bike and upshifted to 3rd gear. No problems shifting. I didn't try revving the engine or anything as I didn't want bad juju coming down on me and somehow causing the center stand to fold and lurching the bike into my living room. I will try bleeding the clutch line again but will have to wait for parts to do anything else with the master cylinder.

For what it is worth, while replacing my brake pads, I did replace the fronts with EBC and have now read on this site that they can cause problems with drag. My front wheel will turn but there is noticeable drag on it as it does not spin freely like the back wheel (which has OEM pads installed). With all of the bad reports of EBC pads on the ST, I am thinking to just go ahead and replace with OEM and eliminate that concern.

Eric

bdalameda · May 1, 2017

It is important that you clear the small bleed hole in the bottom of the reservoir and not just bleed the clutch. Just bleeding the fluid may not clear this small orifice. Take a small wire or paperclip and carefully check to make sure this hole is cleared out before you bleed the clutch. It would be better to take the entire piston assembly out but clearing this hole will tell you right away if this was the problem. Dan

esdinges said:
Hi again,

I bled the clutch a couple of days ago. The reservoir was low and sediment was visible at the bottom. I sucked out the sediment and I had no problems bleeding but...
During my test ride, the bike shifted with no problems. Felt "normal". Today, while on center stand, I started the bike and upshifted to 3rd gear. No problems shifting. I didn't try revving the engine or anything as I didn't want bad juju coming down on me and somehow causing the center stand to fold and lurching the bike into my living room. I will try bleeding the clutch line again but will have to wait for parts to do anything else with the master cylinder.

For what it is worth, while replacing my brake pads, I did replace the fronts with EBC and have now read on this site that they can cause problems with drag. My front wheel will turn but there is noticeable drag on it as it does not spin freely like the back wheel (which has OEM pads installed). With all of the bad reports of EBC pads on the ST, I am thinking to just go ahead and replace with OEM and eliminate that concern.

Eric

Igofar · May 2, 2017

Somebody hold my beer...I got this :call:

Byron · May 2, 2017

esdinges said:
. . . For what it is worth, while replacing my brake pads, I did replace the fronts with EBC and have now read on this site that they can cause problems with drag. My front wheel will turn but there is noticeable drag on it as it does not spin freely like the back wheel (which has OEM pads installed). With all of the bad reports of EBC pads on the ST, I am thinking to just go ahead and replace with OEM and eliminate that concern.

Eric

The only way EBC pads will increase drag on the front is if the wrong pads were installed. By that I mean that like OEM pads EBC does make a pad with thicker material for the rear, not very common but they are out there. The standard FA261HH pads are what you should have used on the front; these are also commonly run on the rear even though they don't have as much meat as the OEM pads. Improper cleaning, failure to clean or lack of lubrication on the pins can cause additional dragging even with OEM pads. Some claim excessive disc wear with EBC pads but with over 100K miles on my 2006 original rotors I don't see it. OEM and EBC pads are HH rated which is their friction rating and what Honda calls for in brake pads. If you also have a sticking SMC from extended sitting than this too could be causing the extra drag.

T_C · May 2, 2017

esdinges said:
I did replace the fronts with EBC and have now read on this site that they can cause problems with drag. My front wheel will turn but there is noticeable drag on it as it does not spin freely like the back wheel (which has OEM pads installed). With all of the bad reports of EBC pads on the ST, I am thinking to just go ahead and replace with OEM and eliminate that concern.

Eric

I'll send you $10, mail the suspect EBC pads to me for destructive analysis. I'll return them in about 50k miles, if thats okay?

Clutch slipping after long term storage

esdinges

MaxPete

Upt' North

pumper316

SaTx Speed Demon!

Upt' North

pumper316

SaTx Speed Demon!

esdinges

Kevin_56

bdalameda

PaleoCyclist

pumper316

SaTx Speed Demon!

MaxPete

bdalameda

PaleoCyclist

pumper316

SaTx Speed Demon!

Igofar

st1300r

esdinges

bdalameda

PaleoCyclist

Igofar

Byron

T_C