ABS vs. Non-ABS Brakes

A few more questions:

When buying new, why would the buyer choose a Non-ABS over one with ABS?
What was the difference in price for ABS vs. Non-ABS?
Why wouldn't Honda just make them all with ABS?

Jay51 said:

Grabcon, how do you keep two fingers on the front brake lever and have full control of the throttle?

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At first it was very awkward, but overtime it is now awkward to not have them there. Controlling the throttle is a challenge at first but using your baby finger and the finger next to it allows for complete control of the throttle. Like anything else it is practice. Riding with two fingers on the brake also allows for braking and blipping the throttle at the same time to get the RPMs up a bit for corner exit preparation.

Now, I am having difficulty on the clutch hand. I still cannot have two fingers on the clutch. I have not mastered the pulling in the clutch lever partially and I pinch my other two fingers between the clutch lever and the grip.

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Uncle Phil said:

When the deer jumps out in front of you or the Mobile Phone Booth comes over on top of you, your muscles tend to 'tighten' (along with other things) so you tend to press harder than intended on the rear pedal and pull harder on the front lever than intended. Survival 'instincts' when faced with reality are difficult to overcome. All an ABS does is to keep you from locking the brakes (and generally the rear locks easier than the front). I was riding in West VA leaned over in a left hander with two fingers over the front lever. I hit a marble, a rock, or a ball bearing hidden in the shadows which snatched the handlebars away from my right hand, causing me to unintentionally grab a handful of front brakes at 60 MPH leaned over. The ABS kicked in, much to my astonishment, and saved my bacon. Practice braking is good and necessary, but all the practice in the world would not have prepared me for this situation. There is no doubt the front would have locked and I would have been down without the ABS. As I always say, you only need an ABS when need it. I have two ABS ST1100s and one non-ABS ST1100, and I ride all three. The ABS has kicked in maybe 3 times between the two ABS bikes. ABS is just another 'safety' tool in my kit just like good gear, good helmets, extra lighting, etc. You'll be fine without ABS until you need it ...

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Similar event happened to me in March of this year. I was certain it would be hit the truck or lay the bike down. ABS saved my butt!. That was on the ST1300 with ABS. Shortly after, sold my non-ABS Wee and purchased a Versys with ABS. Will never go non-ABS again.

Greg

Mondo said:

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Similar event happened to me in March of this year. I was certain it would be hit the truck or lay the bike down. ABS saved my butt!. That was on the ST1300 with ABS. Shortly after, sold my non-ABS Wee and purchased a Versys with ABS. Will never go non-ABS again.

Greg

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What I find as I grow older is my reflexes ain't as good or as quick as they used to be! I figure I need all the help I can get.
Just for grins, interesting reflex test -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/reaction_version5.swf

When buying new, why would the buyer choose a Non-ABS over one with ABS?

There could be several reasons; price for one, maybe the non-ABS has something you want more as in option or color.

What was the difference in price for ABS vs. Non-ABS?

Back in 2006 it was about $1000, not sure about today.

Why wouldn't Honda just make them all with ABS?

Profit and number of sales.

jmcarruth said:

Edelweiss in Europe provides no bikes without ABS. There is a reason for that.

I will never own another new street bike without ABS.

Went from a '91 ST1100 to a '95 ST1100 for the sole purpose of obtaining ABS brakes.

I nearly high sided on the '91, scared the hell out of me.

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If you love your bike, let it go. If it comes back, you high sided.

Jay51 said:

What I would like to know is real world experience from those riders who do not have ABS Brakes on their STs.

Please share your opinions, experiences, suggestions and warnings with me.

Thx,

Jay51

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There was a German study years ago which came to the conclusion that ABS in cars doesnt prevent accidents, statistic wise. I believe in bikes it helps the inexperienced rider, but if the ABS gos on with someone with experience, youre doing something wrong. There was no ABS when I learned to ride, so I learned to stay off the brakes, let the transmission slow the bike, and save the brakes for stop lights. Twice with cable brakes I tried to swerve and brake at the same time in panic situations. The bike went right on the ground, fortunately at less than 10 mph. But I wondered What happens if I do that at speed? I could just imagine.

Fortunately it never happened.
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/esave/esafety_measures_known_safety_effects/anti_lock_braking_systems_in_cars_abs_en

Trump said:

but if the ABS goes on with someone with experience, youre doing something wrong.

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That's absolutely true - and I know that I'm far from a perfect rider in all situations that I might be confronted with suddenly and unexpectedly. That's why I appreciate an ABS - for the times when I get 'surprised' and survival instinct overcomes training. An ABS is not at all necessary just as most safety gear is not 'necessary' - unless you crash. But it can make the difference between a crashed bike and not crashed bike in my experience. Given the price of ST bodywork, an ABS is well worth it if you only use it once.

$ 0.02 ahead...

Having been involved in a few crashes, and a few near misses, I feel that I must have ABS on my bikes (personal opinion). I've dumped my 1990 VFR (years ago) on a front wheel lock-up with a left turning vehicle in front of me. Your ankle is just as broken when it's not your fault. I was lucky it was just my ankle. We had a fatal here in town with similar circumstances recently.

Like others I've ridden lots of miles with both configurations. My current 2003 ST1300A has it and it has never been on in road usage and hopefully never will, but, just in case...

Mike D.

These are the type of answers and experiences that I was hoping to read about...

Keep sharing

Jay51 said:

These are the type of answers and experiences that I was hoping to read about...

Keep sharing

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Jay and me have talked about his plans with this bike, type of riding, the tight and high traffic area's. After reading all of this post my opinion has changed from both have advantages to get the ABS. Thank you all for the thoughts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

My own death defying experience occurred a year ago on a new Kawasaki Versys 650LT with ABS brakes. A car pulled in front of me and stopped dead. I had nowhere to go but into it. I grabbed a handful and foot-full of brakes and hoped I could either stop or get my body up over the car. The ABS brakes activated and stuttered into the stop. I ended up one inch from hitting the car and was upright. My first words to myself were "That was interesting" I was able to get around the stalled car and go on my way...

I have earned my living in high stress dangerous stunts situations on both the ground and in the air. And the plans for this new ST1300 would include that type of riding. That's why my inquiry about comparing ABS vs.Non-ABS situational braking.

I agree that there is really no question between ABS vs. non-ABS. The only issue for me, and I know it's not an issue for some of you, was that the original owner and seller of my non-ABS bike wasn't getting any buyers for that reason. All the ABS models were over my $4,000 budget. Back in 2012, I ended up getting my '03 non-ABS ST (also the only year the non-ABS model didn't include the moveable windshield, which sucks...) with 42k miles for $3500. For me, I didn't have a choice. It was the only way I could get on an ST.

Believe me, I wish I had ABS...

I almost bought a police model from a local dealer that sells them and they all have ABS. They ask $2k for almost any of the STs they have and they usually have six or more every time I stop by. But they're all over 100k and that scared me off...

I have a 2002 1100 without abs and its replacement will definitely have abs.

I think in dry conditions that a skilled/well practiced non abs rider could have braking distances close to those of an abs rider in a planned brake test. In a real world emergency braking situation, especially if the road is wet, abs would win all the time.

My best "saved my bacon" experience was one day on the way home from work on the freeway. In spite of practicing quick stopping (you really can't practice panic braking without the adrenaline and element of surprise) often and participating in motorcycle magazine braking tests, I got it all wrong. I was clipping along at 65-70MPH and I was either checking my mirror or looking at my instruments just a bit too long looked up to see all the cars completely stopped in front of me and a massive closing speed. My instincts were good enough to grab both brakes simultaneously but I yanked them way too hard. It was an interesting study in weight transfer as initially I did not feel much braking from the front at all and my first thought was - oh god, this is going to hurt. After a split second the front started to slow and then it really dug in and managed to stop the bike a foot or so short of a collision.

I think what I was feeling was because I grabbed the front brake so quickly and so hard, that there was no weight transfer to the front wheel initially. That limited the time the ABS system could transmit braking force to the front wheel. Once the weight transfer began the ABS allowed more and more braking pressure to reach the calipers and it really hauled the bike right down. I bet without the ABS I'd have locked the front and gone down before even managing to slow down at all. That would have been really ugly.

I consider myself a pretty skilled rider but I'm human and a moment's inattention can spoil it all

Cars are about 8 feet wide, freeway lanes are minimum 12 feet wide, interstates have 10' wide emergency lanes. A three lane freeway is at least 56' wide and with all lanes stopped has 57% open space and 43% blocked.

This is a mental exercise from The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle by Spiegel. The problem with all lanes blocked scenerios is target fixation and target fixation like threshold braking can and should be practiced to minimize risk. If I ride 70 mph on a regular basis than I need to practice threshold braking from 70 mph. It sounds and feels different from 30 mph on the range. Every ride presents opportunities to visualize and practice 'what ifs'. Practicing what ifs reduce surprise and it's affect on panic.

dduelin said:

Cars are about 8 feet wide, freeway lanes are minimum 12 feet wide, interstates have 10' wide emergency lanes. A three lane freeway is at least 56' wide and with all lanes stopped has 57% open space and 43% blocked.

This is a mental exercise from The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle by Spiegel. The problem with all lanes blocked scenerios is target fixation and target fixation like threshold braking can and should be practiced to minimize risk. If I ride 70 mph on a regular basis than I need to practice threshold braking from 70 mph. It sounds and feels different from 30 mph on the range. Every ride presents opportunities to visualize and practice 'what ifs'. Practicing what ifs reduce surprise and it's affect on panic.

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Easy enough to say....

wjbertrand said:

Easy enough to say....

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I agree completely.

I'm fortunate in that I haven't had to use the ABS as yet, but I feel better knowing it's there. Although, the linked braked do make me feel a little saver than standard brakes. My wife wants to get a 'Wing for 2 up, and I'd definitely prefer ABS with her on the back. Unless I could get a trike, then I might not mind it so much.