Who understands the PAIR system to know I can clamp it off, leaving it in place?

Forgot to mention the one way valve has been checked for proper orientation and function. I pulled the cables at both points, they feel close enough to the same to press on for adding more vac lines. If this doesn't work, I will attach the 1.25" arm to the bell housing to rule out a hidden anomaly in it's function. It's too close to just give up. I believe the lack of vacuum based on the gauge reading is why it disconnects, all of the other function tests check out.

JAT: Disconnect the one-way check valve from the bike's vacuum source and apply vacuum to it... to test/confirm that the vacuum created in the hoses to, and in the servo and reservoir on the other side of the valve, holds/doesn't bleed off. Also, if you put your gage back in place of the servo and turn off the ST, the vacuum reading may drop a bit but should then hold steady.

Edit: if you think your problem is insuffient, or loss of, vacuum during operation, you need something like a MityVac to properly test your build to confirm or rule that out. IMHO

John

When it rains it pours. While testing cylinder #3 to see how much vacuum it would contribute, I did another "feel" test to find differential in my pulley mechanism "Compared to anyone else who installed this" and my loop came out of it's crimp. If you wanted to see where I got the idea, not a bad one, it just didn't work out for how I did it. Fred Adkins install can be found on this link http://will.mylanders.com/mc/st1100/audiovox/
Guess who else's install is on that link. I'll be going to Home depot tomorrow for the metric screws I have taps for and pulling carbs. Super exciting, good times, longest install for an Audiovox cruise ever.

No it doesn't sound right, and I'm not all that familiar with the pair system. but to simplify trouble shooting the vacuum source ,as I've said before... "t" into the vacume line going to the fuel emg. cut off valve source. a source that's recognized as stable and dependable. why the vacuum dropped to zero seems to suggest that the check valve is, either installed backwards or the arrangement of piping/ fittings/ connectors are wrong.( all this is really hard to tell since you are insisting on using a questionable source. ... a word about trouble shooting....address ONE problem at a time and resolve it before advancing to the next....if you're really advanced , and damn few are, you might get away with addressing more that one . now don't get me wrong...we all want to see you succeed at this installation

Blrfl said:

I did do some poking around and discovered that the CCS100 needs vacuum of at least 6 inHg to function....

Click to expand...

That's without a vacuum reservior (he's using a large one). From the install manual:

Note: This vacuum source must maintain at least a minimum of 6 inches of mercury vacuum. If the vacuum is lower than 6 inches while the pedal is depressed, then a vacuum canister must be used.

Click to expand...

John, what was your experience drilling the material in the center of the bellhousing, where you placed your threaded screws for the arm.

I'll be going to Home depot tomorrow for the metric screws I have taps for

Click to expand...

Buy a MityVac or equivalent too. Every DIYer should have one in their tool box. Would have quickly resolved your vacuum issues, which are still unresolved IMO. They are relatively cheap, and can apply pressure/pump too. Again... JMHO

John

John OoSTerhuis said:

Buy a MityVac or equivalent too. Every DIYer should have one in their tool box. Would have quickly resolved your vacuum issues, which are still unresolved IMO. They are relatively cheap, and can apply pressure/pump too. Again... JMHO

John

Click to expand...

My vac container doesn't leak, if that was what the MityVac was for, but I don't have one yet.
Since I had a wire come loose, an install like John's will be more sound.
I checked the orientation of the one way valve again, It's good. I could make a larger vac container if necessary.

moddy said:

John, what was your experience drilling the material in the center of the bellhousing, where you placed your threaded screws for the arm.

Click to expand...

Soft brass and aluminum. Drill carefully. I "dimpled" the center point of where I wanted to drill with a fine point steel drift, so the drill bit wouldn't "wander" when starting to drill the hole. A drop of medium Loctite on the screw threads wouldn't hurt. I also put a couple of bends in the attached lever so I could remove the throttle cable swagged end from its recess, if necessary (not yet, ha).

You don't need to remove the carbs, just lever the rear up just enough to access the bellcrank. Loosen the isolators (carb boots' upper clamps), lift, drill and tap, install the lever, and push the carbs home.

For those still following, here's a couple of pictures (note the captions/text):
http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=33&pid=814#top_display_media
http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=33&pid=833#top_display_media

FWIW

John OoSTerhuis said:

Soft brass and aluminum. Drill carefully. I "dimpled" the center point of where I wanted to drill with a fine point steel drift, so the drill bit wouldn't "wander" when starting to drill the hole. A drop of medium Loctite on the screw threads wouldn't hurt. I also put a couple of bends in the attached lever so I could remove the throttle cable swagged end from its recess, if necessary (not yet, ha).

You don't need to remove the carbs, just lever the rear up just enough to access the bellcrank. Loosen the isolators (carb boots' upper clamps), lift, drill and tap, install the lever, and push the carbs home.

For those still following, here's a couple of pictures (note the captions/text):
http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=33&pid=814#top_display_media
http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=33&pid=833#top_display_media

FWIW

Click to expand...

I'll be sure to center punch that drill point, not interested in making Swiss cheese of a bellhousing. You drilled and bolted the mount in the crossbar for the cable. I am also seeking clarification on picture number 23. Are the wires on both sides of that p3 connector ground for the coils?

I have to admit, if I would have understood the carbs didn't need to be completely pulled, I might have gone for this mod the first time. I just have to be different.

moddy said:

My vac container doesn't leak, if that was what the MityVac was for...

Click to expand...

Well... yes, that and the PAIR system which was not checked properly with one. You implied it failed, but I suspect that when you 'sucked' on the PAIR hose, the AudioVox hose that was tapped into it was not pinched off (or the T it used wasn't capped).

Also, that the whole added vacuum system wasn't tested, as assembled, for leak-down with a MityVac. Vacuum applied with a MityVac at the hose on the servo and reservoir side of the one-way check valve would confirm its integrity. JMO

moddy said:

.... I am also seeking clarification on picture number 23. Are the wires on both sides of that p3 connector ground for the coils?

Click to expand...

Picture, "23a Coil Wire Tap-in" (http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=33&pid=832#top_display_media) shows where I tapped into the coil's blue/white stripe wire for the AudioVox to sense the engine rpm to maintain. As with any of the other pictures in the album, their captions hopefully explain what's depicted. Picture 23b shows how I'd tap in were I to do it again. HTH

Edit: BTW, tap/click on any of my album's pictures for a higher res version.

John

John OoSTerhuis said:

Picture, "23a Coil Wire Tap-in" (http://www.st-riders.net/coppermine/displayimage.php?album=33&pid=832#top_display_media) shows where I tapped into the coil's blue/white stripe wire for the AudioVox to sense the engine rpm to maintain. As with any of the other pictures in the album, their captions hopefully explain what's depicted. Picture 23b shows how I'd tap in were I to do it again. HTH

Edit: BTW, tap/click on any of my album's pictures for a higher res version.

John

Click to expand...

Obviously my coil ground sense wire is working properly. I was interested in the wire two wires down from it is that the other coil ground?

moddy said:

Obviously my coil ground sense wire is working properly. I was interested in the wire two wires down from it is that the other coil ground?

Click to expand...

Not sure I understand. The three leads in the picture's 3P from the Ignition Control Module connect to both coils. The blue/white-stripe wire is for the left coil/cylinder bank (#2/#4), the yellow/blue-stripe wire goes to the right coil/cylinder bank (#1/#3), with the black/white-stripe wire splitting beyond the connector and going to each coil. See the colored wiring diagrams here:
http://www.st-riders.net/index.php?topic=3908
I printed out a copy and always carry it on my ST.

John

John OoSTerhuis said:

Not sure I understand. The three leads in the picture's 3P from the Ignition Control Module connect to both coils. The blue/white-stripe wire is for the left coil/cylinder bank (#2/#4), the yellow/blue-stripe wire goes to the right coil/cylinder bank (#1/#3), with the black/white-stripe wire splitting beyond the connector and going to each coil. See the colored wiring diagrams here:
http://www.st-riders.net/index.php?topic=3908.msg30174#msg30174
I printed out a copy and always carry it on my ST.

John

Click to expand...

You answered the question. I thought two of the three wires were the same type, ground to each coil.
When I was first looking at the wires at first it seemed either of the two wires would do for the connection to be made.

As I begin to undo my original mod, removed the fuel tank and loosened the carburetors this is a picture of the looped wire the crimp failed on, that went around the throttle body on the left side of the carburetor as you're sitting on the bike
Having gotten to this point this morning in an hour of removing the tank loosening the carbs and undoing my first attempt the only thing can be said is I know a really good way not to do it.

by now I bet you're tired of people throwing suggestions up here in an effort to help. so here's another one

moddy said:

John, I disconnected my one-way valve and tested the integrity of the PAIR system by sucking on it expecting it to be closed and almost died from it. It was disgusting and no vacuum. This is with the engine off.

Click to expand...

...I was looking at past responses here. And keept comming back to this. If I'm understanding this rightly you're sucking on the line that goes to the pair system, when you should be blowing...this,in order to mimmic air flow. It follows that the other components(up stream) might be not ordinated in the right direction for air flow in this sub system, either.

the_gr8t_waldo said:

by now I bet you're tired of people throwing suggestions up here in an effort to help. so here's another one ...I was looking at past responses here. And keept comming back to this. If I'm understanding this rightly you're sucking on the line that goes to the pair system, when you should be blowing...this,in order to mimmic air flow. It follows that the other components(up stream) might be not ordinated in the right direction for air flow in this sub system, either.

Click to expand...

Assuming the "T" connector between carb #2 and #4 goes to the PAIR system, yeah, I sucked air on that one and will likely never do that again. I was simulating suction from the engine. If I was supposed to blow on it to check the integrity of the PAIR system, I did not do that. What I don't want to happen is to lose valuable suction for the servo to use because I've "T'd" into the #2 and #4 carb.
Here is a further thought. My original connection to pull the throttle link to the side may have been increasing hard to pull as the servo's vacuum pulled the cable for acceleration. John's install is torquing the direct connection the throttle cables on the bike are twisting, this could have been why I am still working on this 5 days later.
The install is coming along. After a lunch break, it is drilling the bellhousing in both places with the 1.25" arm and placing the mount for the servo connection on the frame cross member.

the_gr8t_waldo said:

by now I bet you're tired of people throwing suggestions up here in an effort to help.

Click to expand...

Not tired of suggestions. I usually do not do things awesome the first time in an effort to do it my way. Sometimes, some things are very narrowly limited to getting them done. Especially with the obstacle of placing an automotive CC in a motorcycle.