Ran the master dry while bleeding.

Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
6
Location
Colgate, Wi
Just put new pads in my new to me 04 ST, and ran the front master empty while bleeding the system. Using a hand pump Mity-Vac and I've been over the front system 5-6 times rebleeding and can't get a decent feeling lever up front. Nothing done to the rest yet, just the two upper caliper bleeders. Any ideas? , I have no brakes upfront right now. Thanks!!!!
 

SteveST1300

Site Supporter
Vendor
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
4,348
Age
69
Location
Ledgewood, NJ 07852
Bike
03&04 ST1300
STOC #
5079
Make sure you are following the bleed order in the manual you will probably just have to keep at it until you get the air out. But you must follow the correct order.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2016
Messages
1,041
Location
LSAC, AB & Indio, CA
Bike
2005/06/07 ST1300
Sounds like a job for "SUPER LARRY!!!!!" :call: Igofar and his white courtesy phone. Its more like the Bat phone I think. Yes follow exact and as stated many times you need that bleeder check valve in place.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,114
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
Dislodging bubbles in a brake line can be a frustrating task. I once spent a couple of hours bleeding new braided lines on my Guzzi - and that system is simple and straightforward compared to the ST's. Options for you - keep using the MiteyVac. Use a large 'hypodermic needle/oven baster" to pump fluid into the lines (requires disconnecting at the top, usually). Borrow a vacuum bleeder from a buddy - this is in effect a power MiteyVac.

Without checking the book, iirc, you bleed some of the front nipples from the rear master cylinder, are you doing this? You have to do the bleeding in the proper sequence.
 

ToddC

Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
4,158
Age
60
Location
Seven Bays Wa
Bike
2006 ST1300A
Been there...done that!! Took me at least two hours with the little sucker, and my final push was the old manual method by pumping the hand lever and manually opening the lower bleeder valve.

Keep at it....the bubbles will go away......:poPoST1:.
PS. Keep a few bottles of fluid at the ready so you can make one big push and finish and not stop mid process. Bubbles like to travel back up hill....
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
7,066
Location
Arizona
Bike
2007 Honda ST1300A
The call has been made :call:
....hold my beer, I got this...:rofl1:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
1,957
Location
near Harrow, Ontario, Canada
Bike
'83 BMW R100RS
STOC #
8870
On my Yamaha XS650 site the conventional wisdom in this situation is to simply fill the master cylinder reservoir and leave the cover open overnight (with a clean rag on top) - eventually the bubbles work their way out and fluid flows down into the system. I am sure that it is painful to watch - but I'm told that it works.

I guess the open question is - will that work on an ST with all of the ABS valving etc. etc. etc.....
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Messages
51
Location
Park City, Utah
Bike
2010 st1300abs
On my Yamaha XS650 site the conventional wisdom in this situation is to simply fill the master cylinder reservoir and leave the cover open overnight (with a clean rag on top) - eventually the bubbles work their way out and fluid flows down into the system. I am sure that it is painful to watch - but I'm told that it works.

I guess the open question is - will that work on an ST with all of the ABS valving etc. etc. etc.....
As per a conversation on the white courtesy phone with IgoFar, after doing the bleed on my ST1300, I put a clamp on the brake lever, clamping it tight toward the grip. I also set a bunch of weight on the brake pedal. I left both like that overnight and in the morning both lever and pedal felt way more firm than the previous day. It now feels like there is no air in either system at all.
 

W0QNX

Blacksheep Tribal Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
3,313
Location
Pensacola, FL. USA
Bike
06/ST1300 19/R1250RT
2024 Miles
007437
Just so you know, you don't have to bleed the system just to install new pads. At it's simplest (my normal), just push the OLD pads apart before you remove them which will bottom the pistons. Remove the screw, remove and replace the pads. Only remove one caliper/side at a time.
 

Earl43P

Wrencher turned Rider
Joined
Feb 13, 2017
Messages
29
Location
Stafford, VA
Bike
04 ST1300
STOC #
8943
Just so you know, you don't have to bleed the system just to install new pads. At it's simplest (my normal), just push the OLD pads apart before you remove them which will bottom the pistons. Remove the screw, remove and replace the pads. Only remove one caliper/side at a time.
While what you say is true, it is not great advice IMO.
Better to remove the calipers from the rotors, remove the pads, fill the reservoir, push the pistons FURTHER OUT, then clean them to a smooth bright finish with brake solvent and a shoelace. 600 grit sandpaper if they are really bad. Once the exposed pistons are bright, drip some brake fluid onto them and press them back fully into the bores (which I do with the bleeder open to purge old fluid), etc., etc.

My point is that pushing dirty pistons back into their bore does no good whatsoever, any way you look at it.

I go further and recommend to suck each reservoir dry (small baster with tubing), clean the spooge hole and reservoir well, then refill and as you push fresh fluid through the open bleeders, repeat the baster suck-out and replenish with fresh fluid periodically. You can see that each pressure stroke/release flows "dirty" fluid back into your "clean" reservoir. Really, a quart of fluid is so cheap, try to use it all!

I admit, being new to my 04 ST1300, that I have not done my brakes yet (although I did replace the front tire and cleaned the front pistons - the pads had mega-meat left at 18,800 miles) the idea is universal for all calipers. Push the pistons further out, clean them, lube, retract, wipe the excess, re-pad. No sense in pushing cruddy pistons in and compromising the seal's life.
 

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
9,634
Location
Jacksonville
Bike
GL1800 R1200RT NC700
2024 Miles
006739
STOC #
6651
While what you say is true, it is not great advice IMO.
Better to remove the calipers from the rotors, remove the pads, fill the reservoir, push the pistons FURTHER OUT, then clean them to a smooth bright finish with brake solvent and a shoelace. 600 grit sandpaper if they are really bad. Once the exposed pistons are bright, drip some brake fluid onto them and press them back fully into the bores (which I do with the bleeder open to purge old fluid), etc., etc.

My point is that pushing dirty pistons back into their bore does no good whatsoever, any way you look at it.

I go further and recommend to suck each reservoir dry (small baster with tubing), clean the spooge hole and reservoir well, then refill and as you push fresh fluid through the open bleeders, repeat the baster suck-out and replenish with fresh fluid periodically. You can see that each pressure stroke/release flows "dirty" fluid back into your "clean" reservoir. Really, a quart of fluid is so cheap, try to use it all!

I admit, being new to my 04 ST1300, that I have not done my brakes yet (although I did replace the front tire and cleaned the front pistons - the pads had mega-meat left at 18,800 miles) the idea is universal for all calipers. Push the pistons further out, clean them, lube, retract, wipe the excess, re-pad. No sense in pushing cruddy pistons in and compromising the seal's life.
I always wonder why that car brakes being the same design have no such need to baby the pistons and seals between pad replacements of up to 50-60,000 miles or twice the motorcycle distance. They get dirty too yet we push the pistons in replace the pads and carry on another 50 grand. I've been lucky I suppose treating my motorcycle calipers to a good cleaning every 50,000 miles or so whether they need it or not. I don't scrimp on the fluid replacement though, every 12,000 for ST brakes and half that on the clutch side.
 

W0QNX

Blacksheep Tribal Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
3,313
Location
Pensacola, FL. USA
Bike
06/ST1300 19/R1250RT
2024 Miles
007437
While what you say is true, it is not great advice IMO. (cut) No sense in pushing cruddy pistons in and compromising the seal's life.
You are correct, good write up for keeping it all super-clean. I was just stating my opinion. My caliper pistons have stayed uncruddy for 217,556 miles now and I just pushed them back in this morning to throw in new pads. I also rode the bike twice today instead of doing needless maintenance all day!

YMMV.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
8,114
Location
Cleveland
Bike
2010 ST1300
I always wonder why that car brakes being the same design have no such need to baby the pistons and seals between pad replacements of up to 50-60,000 miles or twice the motorcycle distance. They get dirty too yet we push the pistons in replace the pads and carry on another 50 grand. I've been lucky I suppose treating my motorcycle calipers to a good cleaning every 50,000 miles or so whether they need it or not. I don't scrimp on the fluid replacement though, every 12,000 for ST brakes and half that on the clutch side.
First, many people abuse their brakes on their cars. If one caliper is not doing the job, no big deal. You don't have that luxury on a bike. And my mechanic friend replaces a LOT of calipers on cars - along with rotors that have been scored beyond salvage because people ran the pad until the metal backing plate did the braking. Second, we should be bleeding the brakes on cars regularly too, but nobody does it - just replace a relatively cheap caliper. Third, the braking system on cars (used to be) relatively simple compared to a modern bike. Yes, there is abs, but two independent systems. And I remember talking to a Volvo mechanic some years back (I was working in their shop - electrician) and he said the woman out front was going to have a heart attack when he told her the brake system needed a new computer and parts to the tune of around $1200.
 

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
9,634
Location
Jacksonville
Bike
GL1800 R1200RT NC700
2024 Miles
006739
STOC #
6651
First, many people abuse their brakes on their cars. If one caliper is not doing the job, no big deal. You don't have that luxury on a bike. And my mechanic friend replaces a LOT of calipers on cars - along with rotors that have been scored beyond salvage because people ran the pad until the metal backing plate did the braking. Second, we should be bleeding the brakes on cars regularly too, but nobody does it - just replace a relatively cheap caliper. Third, the braking system on cars (used to be) relatively simple compared to a modern bike. Yes, there is abs, but two independent systems. And I remember talking to a Volvo mechanic some years back (I was working in their shop - electrician) and he said the woman out front was going to have a heart attack when he told her the brake system needed a new computer and parts to the tune of around $1200.
Don't get the wrong idea. My bike is maintained (by me) in excellent shape and looks probably like yours except it has 150,000 more miles on it. At pad replacements I clean and grease the caliper slide pins but generally leave the pistons alone - that was the gist of my comments pertaining to polishing pistons every time. I mike the rotors at pad replacements and expect the front rotors will go at least 250,000 miles on OEM pads, I change pads at or before the wear indicators indicate 1 mm pad remaining. The brake fluid has been changed 14 times using the same procedure, no short cuts, I use a MityVac on circuits I can't do manually with two hands. The LF caliper pivot bearing was replaced at 122,250 miles as the collar was seizing in the bracket bore but the needle bearing itself was flawless. My bike doesn't sit very much and I think regular use keeps seals and wiped surfaces relatively clean. I treat my cars the same way and change hydraulic fluid as recommended every 2 or 3 years.

To the OP the advice to strap the lever tight and weight the brake pedal is sound advice.
 
OP
OP
Zuidoo
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
6
Location
Colgate, Wi
Big shout out to Larry for calling me and helping me figure out this problem. I also am having problems (unknown to me) with the SMC and that's why I was trying to bleed the brakes. Bike is new to me and had brake issues when I got it. Larry accurately diagnosed my problem and even gave me the correct part numbers to fix it. In addition, he told me about a couple other issues to watch out for on this model. The fact that he would call me out of the blue to help a perfect stranger, just tells me what a great person he is and how great the motorcycle community is in general. This forum has been a great source of info and everyone has been very helpful. Thanks to everyone and Larry in particular. If you weren't so far away, I'd buy you a beer or two!!!!
 

T_C

Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
4,338
Location
St. Louis, MO
Bike
2005 St1300
STOC #
8568
the advice to strap the lever tight and weight the brake pedal is sound advice.
Not to say it doesn't work.. but I'm curious as to what is working. When you pull the lever or sterp on the pedal it's activating a piston, it closes off the input of the fluid from the master. So it's not letting the air bubble back up. Does the pressure just disperse the air into the fluid? Force it to collect somewhere?

Curious mind inquiring to know....
 

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
9,634
Location
Jacksonville
Bike
GL1800 R1200RT NC700
2024 Miles
006739
STOC #
6651
PM me an email address and I'll send a step by step tutorial with illustrations that is helpful when flushing and bleeding the ST1300 hydraulic system.
 
Top Bottom