Replace '05 SMC with '09 MSC, whole caliper assembly

T_C

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After enough miles I'm thinking of doing some proactive preventive maintenance.
I know there was a slight re-design of the piston on the SMC. I'm not trying to stuff the new piston into the old hole, plus it might be scraped out of round anyway.
If I bought the whole assembly, could I bolt the '09 front left caliper into my '05 bike?


For '05 - BRKT SUB ASSY,L F 06454-MCS-G03
For '09 - 886265-8 BRACKET SUB-ASSY. 06454-MCS-R01
 

Mellow

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I believe it's been done before, Forest had a dealer do it I think.

If I were to do it for both front calipers, they are bigger and need different pads.
 
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***URGENT UPDATE***
It was too good to be true :no1:
I found a fly in the ointment with the Secondary Master Cylinder Swap.
While I used my bike for a testing ground, I took a new 2007 assembly, and replaced the piston assembly from a 2009 (newer design piston and spring from a parts bike).
I can't say that if you order just the REBUILD KIT for a 2009 and newer kit, that you will get the new design (in 2008 it was hit or miss which one you got).
Anyway, while the bore, length, depth, ports, etc. were all matching, allowing me to insert the new piston design in an older unit, and has worked for me..... I forgot to take one very IMPORTANT thing into consideration....
since the new style calipers are longer, the caliper guide pins will NOT match up with the new style SMC bracket :mw1: don't do it!!!!
Brake systems are a very serious thing, and while I would never recommend that anyone use any part that was not a direct replacement part for their bike, I stepped outside the box and was trying to come up with a solution to help solve the design issues with the secondary master cylinders. I will be the first to admit that I was wrong, and I hope that by posting this update, that other members will benefit from it, and learn from my mistakes and findings.
Please only use the correct year/model parts for whatever bike you have to be safe.
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.
Igofar.
 
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Hold my beer, the white courtesy phone is ringing and I think its him...:rolleyes:
 

ST Gui

240Robert
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Mellow said:
If I were to do it for both front calipers, they are bigger and need different pads.
Bigger pads should mean better braking and he wouldn't have to buy three different sets of pads (if that's possible).
 

SupraSabre

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The 09 and newer models have different front brake calipers. The older style were a two piece design, held together by bolts, and used shorter pad hanger pins, the newer version is a one piece casting that is about a quarter of an inch longer in overall length.
The newer design also uses a different (longer) hanger pin, which has an 8 mm head on it instead of the 5 mm allen design. The hanger pins on the pre-07 and post 09 pads are not interchangeable, and the front and rear pads are completely a different design, and cannot be swapped back and forth.
The secondary master cylinder bracket, however, appears to be the same between the models as far as length, diameter, width, bore, and piston length. The piston assembly in the post 07 version uses a different two piece design, different spring, etc.
I have both new and old units for comparison if anyone has any questions or would like to see pictures of them.
Slight correction: '08 is when the "larger" pads came into being.

'03 to '07 Front Pad Part Number: 06455-MCS-G02
'08 - on Front Pad Part Number: 06455-MCS-R01

The rears are the same on both: 06435-MCS-G02
 
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Thanks Bob, that was a typo on my part, thanks for catching it and correcting it to avoid incorrect information.
:plus1:
 
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OK, so I am shopping, I guess I want to get an 09 or newer model for best brakes, or, does it change again?
Are you implying that you are looking to purchase an 09 or newer secondary master cylinder for an ST1300, or looking to purchase a later model bike with the upgraded secondary master cylinder?
If you own a 2007 and earlier ST1300, the newer secondary master cylinder bracket will not work on your bike. If your worried about purchasing a pre-2007 bike, but are concerned with the "older style" piston, do not concern yourself, as long as you maintain, and flush and bleed your brakes yearly, you should not have any problems. The issues of SMC's failing comes from neglect, and or sitting long periods of time etc.
 

Mellow

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OK, so I am shopping, I guess I want to get an 09 or newer model for best brakes, or, does it change again?
Based on your intro, you are shopping for a new bike... in 2008 is when some changes were done to the brake caliper design up front, misc fasteners and covers and a different ECM.. there are a few other small changes but 2008 and newer should all include the most up to date changes.
 

dduelin

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The ST1300 platform did not change enough to trump 'service records, condition, and mileage'. In other words IMHO a nice example of any year shouldn't be passed up.
 

Mellow

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The ST1300 platform did not change enough to trump 'service records, condition, and mileage'. In other words IMHO a nice example of any year shouldn't be passed up.
Yes, good point... a nice 05 is better than an abused 09 anyday.
 

jfheath

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04 onwards, the ST1300 is a very nice bike regardless of year. In the Uk it is necessary to be wary of the year on the registration plate as this may not be the same as the model year.
By 04/05 , Honda had made some significant improvements to the engine and swinging arm mounting - as described in the 04 addendum to the workshop manual. These may or may not have been associated with the weave that a few owners had experienced at the time.

I believe that the swinging arm mount changed around 04 - earlier models have an allen headed lock bolt inserted in the centre of the left side swing arm pivot.

There were a number of changes to components 08 onwards - notably the design of the front brake callipers, pads and retaining pin, the SMC unit, the ABS pulsar ring and sensor, the front brake lever and master cylinder, the side panel hole infills and most significantly from my point of view, a different ECM unit. My experience of this (switching from an 06 to an 09) is that the later model provided much more usable power at low down revs - very noticeable when climbing uphill hairpins.
 
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