Stability question

woodybelle

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2006 ST1300
This is what Honda says about ST1300 stability issues.
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ST1300
Another bike Hancock was instrumental in developing is the ST1300. The bike was launched in Europe in 2002, though it wasn’t a smooth introduction.
During Honda’s R&D track testing the ST1300 would ride fine for about two laps, but engine heat would change the consistency of the engine bolts, and the engine would come loose in the frame. Because the engine was acting as a stressed member and the swingarm pivoted in the cases, this would subsequently have a detrimental effect on handling.
And just to complicate matters more, because of varying production tolerances, some bikes weaved, some didn’t.
Hancock, who did development riding for the bike, knew about this weave. The day before the world press launch in France, he called the European national sales manager and expressed his concern that since work was still being done to resolve the stability issue, it might not be a good idea to let journalists ride the bikes, telling his European counterpart, “If they ride it on the road they’ll all complain about the stability.”


The ST1300 – it all looked good on paper, but then came the product launch. Image: Honda
Hancock was told it was too late to do anything about it, and was even accused of being “too critical”. The following day he got a phone call telling him he was right, and that every journalist who had ridden the machine had complained about its instability.
The solution was specific to each individual bike and required shimming the swingarm pivot bearings and then take it out and test ride it to make sure the weave was corrected. Every ST1300 produced since has been test-ridden before leaving the factory.


Even today, ST1300 swingarms need shimming at the factory to prevent weave. Photo: Honda
 

DavidR8

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8968
This is what Honda says about ST1300 stability issues.
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ST1300
Another bike Hancock was instrumental in developing is the ST1300. The bike was launched in Europe in 2002, though it wasn’t a smooth introduction.
During Honda’s R&D track testing the ST1300 would ride fine for about two laps, but engine heat would change the consistency of the engine bolts, and the engine would come loose in the frame. Because the engine was acting as a stressed member and the swingarm pivoted in the cases, this would subsequently have a detrimental effect on handling.
And just to complicate matters more, because of varying production tolerances, some bikes weaved, some didn’t.
Hancock, who did development riding for the bike, knew about this weave. The day before the world press launch in France, he called the European national sales manager and expressed his concern that since work was still being done to resolve the stability issue, it might not be a good idea to let journalists ride the bikes, telling his European counterpart, “If they ride it on the road they’ll all complain about the stability.”


The ST1300 – it all looked good on paper, but then came the product launch. Image: Honda
Hancock was told it was too late to do anything about it, and was even accused of being “too critical”. The following day he got a phone call telling him he was right, and that every journalist who had ridden the machine had complained about its instability.
The solution was specific to each individual bike and required shimming the swingarm pivot bearings and then take it out and test ride it to make sure the weave was corrected. Every ST1300 produced since has been test-ridden before leaving the factory.


Even today, ST1300 swingarms need shimming at the factory to prevent weave. Photo: Honda
Here's the source of this quotation:
https://canadamotoguide.com/2012/11/16/interview-dave-hancock-head-of-product-planning-and-business-development-honda-motor-europe/
 
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Bravo, very interesting feature. It's always nice to here it from the horses mouth.
Thanks WB and DR8.
As an aside Dave Hancock and myself come from the same area of the UK, North Staffordshire, although I don't live there any more.
Once again thanks, although you know someone is going to get very technical now about re shimming the swingarm pivot.
Upt'North.
 
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Even today, ST1300 swingarms need shimming at the factory to prevent weave. Photo: Honda
And this is the conclusion I have for my instability problem which is very real above 90 mph, I know this so I live with it. My 2007 ST1300 is smooth and reliable , just keep it below 100 mph.
 

DavidR8

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And this is the conclusion I have for my instability problem which is very real above 90 mph, I know this so I live with it. My 2007 ST1300 is smooth and reliable , just keep it below 100 mph.
I wonder if there's a service procedure somewhere on how to check if shimming is necessary and if so, how to go about it.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
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Cleveland
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2010 ST1300
And this is the conclusion I have for my instability problem which is very real above 90 mph, I know this so I live with it. My 2007 ST1300 is smooth and reliable , just keep it below 100 mph.
If you have read the thread "How fast have you had your ST?" (with 677 replies) then you know how hard it is to keep the bike in double digit speeds.
 
OP
OP
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Feb 5, 2017
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Liberty lake,wa.
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03 st 1300
On examination my swing arm has man made punch marks exactly like the head punchmarks next to the ID plate for the wiring
recal. Which leads me to believe the previous owner had my bike looked at and possibly shimmed. Did they punch bikes that were shimmed?
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
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Location
Cleveland
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2010 ST1300
On examination my swing arm has man made punch marks exactly like the head punchmarks next to the ID plate for the wiring
recal. Which leads me to believe the previous owner had my bike looked at and possibly shimmed. Did they punch bikes that were shimmed?
Can you explain or take a picture and post it showing these punch marks? I'm not familiar with them and don't understand what you mean. Did someone use a center punch and make 'dimples' on the outside of the swingarm? Why do this near the ID plate?
 

Whooshka

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I just had an 1823 mile week with some friends. There were 2 other ST's in the group and I did ride one. Keep in mind I bought my '06 used in January, 60k miles and I went over it all and gave it a major servicing (all fluids, TB sync, brake pads, fork oil changed to 7 wt and 8mm of shims in the springs, fork brace, new Angel GT tires at 38/40). The bike was loaded with full saddle bags, top trunk and camp gear on the passenger seat. Some observations...

At a steady 80 on the freeway it was very stable. Even on the one occasion I got it up to 110. Obviously less stable when going thru the air wash of a tractor trailer.

Handled EXCELLENT!!!!! Scraped my toe a few times and was told it looked like my mufflers were mm from dragging also.

Avg'd 41 MPG. 700 miles of highway and the rest all twisties. We ride very "spirited".

My ST handled better and was much smoother riding than an '08 I rode. It seemed "harsh". Probably due to the tires. I can't praise the Angel GT's enough.

I was smoother on the ST than on my FZ1 with almost 300 pounds less weight and 50 more HP.

I really.. really like this bike!
 

ToddC

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Can you explain or take a picture and post it showing these punch marks? I'm not familiar with them and don't understand what you mean. Did someone use a center punch and make 'dimples' on the outside of the swingarm? Why do this near the ID plate?
I know on the 03 STs, that when a dealer finishes with the factory recall items, the service tech is suppose to put a punch mark on the head to denote that the service has been done......says to do it right in the factory recall notice.

ToddC
 
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Alief, TX, USA
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7461
On examination my swing arm has man made punch marks exactly like the head punchmarks next to the ID plate for the wiring
recal. Which leads me to believe the previous owner had my bike looked at and possibly shimmed. Did they punch bikes that were shimmed?
My ST had the wiring recall performed while the previous owner had it, but I can't spot any punch marks on the steering head anywhere near the ID plate. They wouldn't be someplace under the seat in the neighborhood of the wiring fix, would they? The 2003 Honda Service Manual for my ST makes no mention of any shim(s) associated with the installation of the swingarm, nor are any shown in the illustrations/photos of the swing arm assembly.

The left side swingarm pivot bolt and lock nut have a "shared" chalk mark that can be visually checked to insure the lock nut hasn't backed off (the faint white mark visible in the attached photo between 6 and 7 o'clock). Is it possible that the punch marks you refer to serve the same purpose?
 

Attachments

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Feb 22, 2013
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south Louisiana
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2010 ST1300
I would change to new tires. My tires were 7 years old at 7000 miles. ( bought a model sitting for A few years). It wanted to tank slap at most any speed. New tires are sooo nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace
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The ST1300 was a early release model for 2002 in Europe being released in the spring of 2001. After the release of the ST1300 in the spring there were some questions about the stability of the bike. Honda determined the engine mounting bolts needed a different torque sequence before the bike was allowed to be sold. Bikes destined for the US market were held from shipment until the fall of 2002 and any engine retorque or swing arm rework was done before the bikes hit the USA. We have never heard of any dealer recall concerning the swing arm as if was supposedly redesigned before they came to the USA.
 
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