Changed all the pads...now the brakes drag a little...help

Eyepeacer

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Today I changed all the pads on my newly acquired '07 ST1300A. Couple of weeks ago I changed all the brake and clutch fluid. I went with OEM pads and took the aftermarket pads out. The rear pads were just about gone and the front were at about 20%. Now the brakes are dragging just a little. Should there be no drag at all? On the center stand, moved by hand, they feel like the brakes on my old Concours, after a mechanic serviced them. Will they "wear in" if I do nothing, or should I bleed them a bit? Can one of you more experienced DIYers walk me through the fix? Thanks guys.
 
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the pads are always in contact with the rotor, the seal is what pulls the piston back ever so slightly. Bleeding the brakes will not solve that problem but I don't see a slight drag a problem. All the slides and pins should be cleaned and lightly lubed with a silicone brake grease.
 

Blrfl

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Expect the pads to be just barely touching the rotor and to make a little bit of noise as you turn the wheel. If you feel resistance, you probably have a problem.

The best thing to do if you're unsure is take the bike out for a few miles that include routine braking. Do a couple of back-to-back hard stops, jump off and measure the rotor temperature with a non-contact IR thermometer.* If it's anything less than about 150°F, everything's fine. Mine typically run 130-ish after that exercise.

--Mark


*The Fluke 59 Max+ runs about $85. If you can find any of Raytek's models like the MT-4 or MT-6, they're manufactured by Fluke and are less expensive. I have an MT-6 and it's been great. They're also good for making sure the exhaust temperature is the same on all four cylinders and all sorts of other fun things around the house. There are really cheap ones available, but I have no idea how accurate they are.
 
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Today I changed all the pads on my newly acquired '07 ST1300A. Couple of weeks ago I changed all the brake and clutch fluid. I went with OEM pads and took the aftermarket pads out. The rear pads were just about gone and the front were at about 20%. Now the brakes are dragging just a little. Should there be no drag at all? On the center stand, moved by hand, they feel like the brakes on my old Concours, after a mechanic serviced them. Will they "wear in" if I do nothing, or should I bleed them a bit? Can one of you more experienced DIYers walk me through the fix? Thanks guys.
OK, you changed the fluid two weeks ago when the pads were almost worn out, but didn't change the pads at that time, is that correct? How full did you refill the brake fluid? If you filled it near the top, then when you retracted the pistons to make room for the new pads, you may have removed all or most of the airspace in the master cylinder. If your master cylinder is overfilled it might be what's preventing your new pads from retracting just a little when you release the brake lever.

But, it may also be nothing, the pads are supposed to drag 'just a little'. If you elevate the front wheel and spin it, the wheel should spin freely, with a little grinding sound from the contact of the pads with the rotors. If its binding noticeably, where you can feel resistance to spinning, then that's too much drag. The rear is a bit harder to gauge because of the resistance of the driveshaft, but it should also spin relatively freely.

If either wheel isn't feeling right, check the fluid levels in the master cylinders first, then check the pads and clips for any signs of incorrect installation.
 
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*The Fluke 59 Max+ runs about $85. If you can find any of Raytek's models like the MT-4 or MT-6, they're manufactured by Fluke and are less expensive. I have an MT-6 and it's been great. They're also good for making sure the exhaust temperature is the same on all four cylinders and all sorts of other fun things around the house. There are really cheap ones available, but I have no idea how accurate they are.
I finally picked up one of these for $35 or so when they kept teasing me with e-mails. I think its always on sale for $49 from the $69 list, and if you're in no hurry they always have specials for less.

http://www.thermoworks.com/IR-Gun

Seems like a pretty decent unit for home use, has adjustable emissivity, and the company has a great reputation for making quality products. Anyone associated with serious BBQ has one of their Thermapens, its an industry staple.

edit: looks like 1.5% accuracy for the MT6 vs. 2.0% on the one I bought.
 
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My '07 had a baked-on film of crud around each brake piston , they don't retract well when ring of crud is stopped by the cylinder seals . I cleaned & polished the pistons , reassembled w/ new fluid & bled.
 

mlheck

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OK, you changed the fluid two weeks ago when the pads were almost worn out, but didn't change the pads at that time, is that correct? How full did you refill the brake fluid? If you filled it near the top, then when you retracted the pistons to make room for the new pads, you may have removed all or most of the airspace in the master cylinder. If your master cylinder is overfilled it might be what's preventing your new pads from retracting just a little when you release the brake lever.

If either wheel isn't feeling right, check the fluid levels in the master cylinders first, then check the pads and clips for any signs of incorrect installation.
Make sure you cover the tank and dash when you loosen the screws to check the fluid level. If you have compressed the air in the master cylinder it will likely spray brake fluid when you loosen the screws. BTDT



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Today I changed all the pads on my newly acquired '07 ST1300A. Couple of weeks ago I changed all the brake and clutch fluid. I went with OEM pads and took the aftermarket pads out. The rear pads were just about gone and the front were at about 20%. Now the brakes are dragging just a little. Should there be no drag at all? On the center stand, moved by hand, they feel like the brakes on my old Concours, after a mechanic serviced them. Will they "wear in" if I do nothing, or should I bleed them a bit? Can one of you more experienced DIYers walk me through the fix? Thanks guys.
A little bit of drag is normal. By little bit I mean both wheels should turn freely with very slight resistance. Any effort indicates a problem. If I were you and had any doubt, I would put it on the center stand, cover everything up, loosen all caliper bolts, brake pins and the rear axle, drain each brake master cylinder reservoir to about 1/4 full, then:

Take the calipers off, take out the pads, pull the calipers apart and grease the slider pins with brake specific grease. Take a toothbrush and household cleaner and scrub the hell out of each piston where it exits the seals, push them back in, then reinstall everything. Why did you grease the back of the pads? To me it would only serve as another place to trap crud. I would not do that. I have been guilty of using Permatex anti squeal on other bikes, never the ST with OEM pads.

Put it all back together, replace the fluid and I bet you see an improvement. If not, you need to totally remove the pistons, clean them and replace the seals. I had to do this on a ST1100 I owed in coastal FL.

If the problem persists on the rear wheel, next step is looking at the SMC.
 

jfheath

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The wheels should turn without trouble although you will hear the brakes lightly rub the surface - a gentle 'Sshhhh' sound.
Follow dwalby's advice re the fluid level.

Check that you have nothing between the pad anti-squeal plates and the back plate of the pads. No heat shield, no bits of grit. The clearance for new pads is minimal.

Check that the pistons can be pushed in all of the way - by thumb pressure. (Ensure there is room in the reservoir - handlebar reservoir for the outer two pistons, rear reservoir for the centre piston).

Check that the front axle is properly mounted. If the left hand fork leg isn't flush with the surface of the fork, then your callipers will not be in the correct position in relation to the disk rotors. With the brand new thick pads, this could be causing one pad or the other to be in more permanent contact. See the thread here.
Any noticeable drag on the front left calliper could (as heat builds up) activate the SMC which would cause drag on the rear. But if the SMC is OK, you wouldn't notice this just spinning the wheel with the bile on the centrestand.

Check that those small silver clips which locate in the callipers to accommodate the tab end of the brake pads are the correct ones. Rear one has a ridge on it, with a corresponding notch on the tab of the brake pad. Front one does not. If the rear clip has been placed on the front calliper, the pad will get stuck.
 
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I finally picked up one of these for $35 or so when they kept teasing me with e-mails. I think its always on sale for $49 from the $69 list, and if you're in no hurry they always have specials for less.

http://www.thermoworks.com/IR-Gun
Thermoworks will bury you w/ emails and special offers. I made the mistake of buying my thermopen at the first reduced price I saw. Mistake! Sign up to their mailing list and sit tight. The reduced prices will come rolling in. When you buy what you want, unsubscribe.
 
OP
OP

Eyepeacer

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I just want to thank all those who took the time to offer help and advice. I'm proud to be a member of this community! As it turned out, the simplest issue was the one. I'm surprised how different the fluid levels in the master cylinders were after installing the new brake pads. After siphoning off just a little, and in the case of the front-right, bleeding a little, I now have no excess drag or heat and rotor temperatures seem be in line with each other. You guys helped me understand... a lot. Thanks.
 
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I just want to thank all those who took the time to offer help and advice. I'm proud to be a member of this community! As it turned out, the simplest issue was the one. I'm surprised how different the fluid levels in the master cylinders were after installing the new brake pads. After siphoning off just a little, and in the case of the front-right, bleeding a little, I now have no excess drag or heat and rotor temperatures seem be in line with each other. You guys helped me understand... a lot. Thanks.
Yep, the lesson learned is never raise the level of the brake fluid. If you flush it, keep track of how full it was and only refill to that point, not higher. Or flush it right after installing new pads, when the pistons are fully retracted.
 
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