Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

Joined
Jun 15, 2015
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Utah
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2008 ST1300A
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8874
Well, got an unexpected surprise on the 4th of July. Was catching up to my wife and kiddos on a journey to Mt Pleasant UT from American Fork. I was solo and decided it would be fun to irritate my wife and shock at the same time with dear old Dad doing an amazing (in my mind) fly by pass. Passed her at close to top speed in 4th - around 105 mph indicated and just after passing her, bike decided to severely wobble - not due to wind etc, way different from that. I shifted up to 5th, slowed down and it smoothed out just fine. Very glad it smoothed out and I didn't tumble for 1/4 mile!

This really was quite a surprise, as I've been 120 indicated once before, and several 110's, 105's etc no problems - all smooth sailing in the clear deserts of Utah.

Anticipation of a fun heckling from my wife almost turned into the worst possible scenario of punching my ticket in front of my family! My wife totally noted the wobble and thought I was going to go down. She slugged me a few times after we got to our destination.

I have to assume the difference is attributed to my tires. I went from PR4's to double dark. BF Goodrich Comp 2 on the rear (30 PSI) and Battlax BT45H on the front (42 PSI). I've had these tires on for a quite a few months, just never at higher than normal speeds.

I don't regret the change to the dark side, I'll simply eliminate the excessive high speeds (better for me this way). I just wish I didn't learn this lesson in front of my wife & kids though!
 
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dduelin

Tune my heart to sing Thy grace
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Of course glad it wasn't worse for you. It could be steering head bearings, tire pressures, suspension condition and adjustment, load weight and configuration besides tire choices. I've found weaves like that never get worse as long as I stop building speed and lessen in magnitude when I slow down.

Top speed in 4th is about 139 indicated or 130 actual. That's bumping the rev limiter around 9200 rpm. A few times I've thought the mighty ST swallowed a valve when it was just me in 4th thinking I was 5th.
 
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I just wish I didn't learn this lesson in front of my wife & kids though!
marriage 101, never do something dangerous in front of your wife unless it was something she ordered you to do. They have enough ammunition as it is, no need to give them more.
 

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired
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marriage 101, never do something STUPID and dangerous in front of your wife unless it was something she ordered you to do. They have enough ammunition as it is, no need to give them more.
There, fixed it for you! :D
 

skipcurt

Skip
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As a teenager I remember my best friends dad saying to us when we were being stupid..."Horseplay is horse****!" Now knock it off.

Skip
 
Joined
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kankakee
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Well, got an unexpected surprise on the 4th of July. Was catching up to my wife and kiddos on a journey to Mt Pleasant UT from American Fork. I was solo and decided it would be fun to irritate my wife and shock at the same time with dear old Dad doing an amazing (in my mind) fly by pass. Passed her at close to top speed in 4th - around 105 mph indicated and just after passing her, bike decided to severely wobble - not due to wind etc, way different from that. I shifted up to 5th, slowed down and it smoothed out just fine. Very glad it smoothed out and I didn't tumble for 1/4 mile!

This really was quite a surprise, as I've been 120 indicated once before, and several 110's, 105's etc no problems - all smooth sailing in the clear deserts of Utah.

Anticipation of a fun heckling from my wife almost turned into the worst possible scenario of punching my ticket in front of my family! My wife totally noted the wobble and thought I was going to go down. She slugged me a few times after we got to our destination.

I have to assume the difference is attributed to my tires. I went from PR4's to double dark. BF Goodrich Comp 2 on the rear (30 PSI) and Battlax BT45H on the front (42 PSI). I've had these tires on for a quite a few months, just never at higher than normal speeds.

I don't regret the change to the dark side, I'll simply eliminate the excessive high speeds (better for me this way). I just wish I didn't learn this lesson in front of my wife & kids though!
You can change every thing and it will still happen its motorcycle geometry this will explain https://motorbikewriter.com/avoid-tank-slapper/
 
Joined
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Folks on this forum defend Honda's research and development time and time again, however, they then mount a car tire on the rear of their motorcycle, and a rear tire on the front?
Sure sounds kind of funny huh :rofl1:
If it throws you off its your own darn fault.
 
Joined
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Put me on the list also. Cant go over 100 mph indicated.

Just mounted bt45 and still fresh bf goodrich.

Got to get with it and try tapered steering head bearings.

Had wobbles with MC tires but at higher speeds.
 

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired
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Before I started riding v45 Sabres, I had a '83 650 Nighthawk. At one time in a similar situation (wife in the car, me on the bike, along with my brother on his bike, a V45 Sabre) we were coming back from a family outing and Dave and I decided to hit the ton on a little farm road with almost nobody on it. As we slowed down for the freeway entrance, I totally missed judged my speed and the curves to the entrance and lucky for me the curbs were rounded, no spill!

Not long after that, I added a handlebar mounted fairing to the bike. A Vette decided to take me on, and we got up to 100mph when the bike started a high speed wobble. I was able to get it back under control around 55mph. I found I couldn't get the bike above 85mph where it would start the wobble!

Fast forward 4 years, Coming home from school late one night, another motorcycle next to me and we were doing right at 85 (thinking I was safe) a tractor-trailer rig came the opposite direction and into the high speed wobble I went. Only this time I was thrown off @ 65mph. Totaled the bike and almost totaled me. I got some good 2nd degree burns out of it.

I like to think I learned my lesson, but sometimes....:eek:4:
 
Joined
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kankakee
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Put me on the list also. Cant go over 100 mph indicated.

Just mounted bt45 and still fresh bf goodrich.

Got to get with it and try tapered steering head bearings.

Had wobbles with MC tires but at higher speeds.
why guess on changing parts. Are the bearings loose?? Are they preloaded properly?? Bearings can be checked , If you read the article on wobble you might want to get a steering stabilizer. The geometry of the bike has changed now you need to compensate for the change.
 
Joined
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Arizona
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Time for new bearings and races.
The OEM ball bearing set up is a better choice the the limited turning that the steering does in this application.
Tapered bearings would be a better choice for wheel bearings and other applications.
.02
 
Joined
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885
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2006 ST1300
No the tapered are known to fix all issues with the OEM balls. Well known on the ST1100 way back. Gets rid of all the wobbles and weaves. I've changed 2 bikes so far to them and love it.

All bikes should come with tapered OEM, especially the heavy ones.
 
Joined
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kankakee
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No the tapered are known to fix all issues with the OEM balls. Well known on the ST1100 way back. Gets rid of all the wobbles and weaves. I've changed 2 bikes so far to them and love it.

All bikes should come with tapered OEM, especially the heavy ones.
old talking point but,,, came across this by accident .... [h=2]Pan weave[edit][/h]

2002 ST1300P in emergency services configuration. Key differences are single seat plus blue lights & sirens.​

Evidence indicates the ST1300 can exhibit a weave instability mode at high speed — known in the case of the ST1300 as Pan Weave.
In April 2007, subsequent to the death of a police motorcyclist riding a single seat ST1300, the emergency service version of the ST1300, a British coroner announced he would warn all Chief Constables in England and Wales of the "serious threat" to riders' lives posed by the ST1300 and the "catastrophic result" of the high speed weave.[SUP][15][/SUP] Later safety checks resulted in one examiner sustaining several broken bones in a similar incident. UK police forces subsequently withdrew the ST1300 from police service;[SUP][16][/SUP] Freewheelers EVS and London Ambulance Service continue to operate the ST1300.[SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][18][/SUP]
RiDE Magazine reported in October 2007 that a team replicated weave instability mode with a civilian Honda ST1300 — reproducing the instability at a speed of 110 miles per hour (180 km/h) under certain loading conditions. The rider noticed a rear wheel maximum yaw of 11 degrees per second, described as "a consistent and alarming sideways movement." The editors named the behavior "Pan weave". The intent of the testing was not to determine the cause of the weave, but to confirm its existence. Also, the article reported that 43% of surveyed ST1300 owners had experienced the weave.[SUP][19][/SUP]
[h=3]Honda response[edit][/h]

Hong Kong Fire Services Department next-generation emergency medical motorcycle, put into service in 2009; the Honda ST1300P model was originally used as a traffic police patrol motorcycle.​

American Honda published an advisory in August 2007 on the proper selection, installation, and use of equipment on the ST1300PA police motorcycle.[SUP][20][/SUP] They made a strong recommendation to have "qualified personnel evaluate a motorcycle fitted with all intended equipment under the anticipated speeds and conditions before the vehicle is placed into service." The advisory also contained guidelines for the selection and installation of attachments, including:[SUP][21][/SUP]

  • Place equipment as low and close to the center of the motorcycle as possible;
  • avoid exceeding the maximum load limit for the vehicle;
  • comply with weight limits for each saddlebag and fairing pocket;
  • ensure attachments and equipment are balanced on both sides of the vehicle.
 
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Honestly if you take too much weight off the front end of any bike it will shake its head at speed.


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David, i agree completely that the correct weight distribution is important with all vehicles. But please remember that officers were killed or injured whilst riding these bikes which HONDA supplied and deemed fit for purpose. I will not cover old ground for the reasons for weave but it was not down to the officers putting one to many pieces of paper in the pannier. Honda authorised and evaluated this vehicle for Police use, they didn't do a very good job back then. Just ask the officers or widow who were affected.
Yes weave is present in many motorcycles, we know that, wobble is also there, but to place a vehicle in Police service whilst it had handling issues was not clever. These bikes still weave, check it out here.
Just saying.
Upt'North.
 
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