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Thread: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

  1. #31
    jazzkat's Avatar
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Let's be honest about this, there is far too much going on, from a scientific point of view, for most of us mere mortals to be able to analyse this. If the mighty Big H couldn't sort it and just played dumb then us armchair engineers aren't going to be able to work it out.
    My thought is that there are so many variables, from aerodynamics to weight distribution, through tyre pressure/choice and external environmental conditions (wind and slipstreams), that it has been impossible to fix. It also seems to manifest itself at "illegal" speed, so therefore none of us are likely to experience it, right?
    I often wonder whether that is why Honda never sought to improve/upgrade/develop the Pan.

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  3. #32
    John Heath jfheath's Avatar
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post
    Did Honda make any significant changes to the design after the well-publicized police accidents?
    I haven't seen anything that explicitly addresses the high speed weave that some bikes seemed to display. But there is an addendum to the 2002/2003 service manual which includes modified procedures for the 2002/2003 bikes and distinguishes these from a different setup for the 2004 bikes. These relate to engine mounting and swinging arm installation.

  4. #33
    Site Supporter DavidR8's Avatar
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Quote Originally Posted by jfheath View Post
    I haven't seen anything that explicitly addresses the high speed weave that some bikes seemed to display. But there is an addendum to the 2002/2003 service manual which includes modified procedures for the 2002/2003 bikes and distinguishes these from a different setup for the 2004 bikes. These relate to engine mounting and swinging arm installation.
    Wasnt the first report of the weave in 2007?
    I wonder what they were fixing/changing with the 2003-2004 changes.
    There are no recalls are there?


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  5. #34
    John Heath jfheath's Avatar
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    I was merely pointing out that the addendum to the shop manual describes a modified set of procedures. The 2002/3 swing arm pivot arrangement is different from the one on the 2004 model. The arrangement described and illustrated in the addendum for the 2004 model seems to be the same as the one on my old A6 model and my current 2013 built A9 model.
    Whether or not the weave issue and the modified procedures are related I don't know. As I said - I haven't seen anything that explicitly addresses the high speed weave issue.

    Pc Shreeve had his fatal accident in November 2005, but according to reports in the UK press, eg here, officers had reported problems since January 2003. The inquest was reported in 2007.

  6. #35
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Ahh thanks for clarifying that Jeff.
    Is it safe to say that from model year 2004 the swing arm pivot was changed?


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  7. #36
    John Heath jfheath's Avatar
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post
    Ahh thanks for clarifying that Jeff.
    Is it safe to say that from model year 2004 the swing arm pivot was changed?
    I'm not sure about that. It would seem so, but I took a look at the fiches a while back. For UK models, the 2004 and 2006 show both pivot bolt arrangements. The earlier pivot is not shown on the 2008 fiche. However, my 2006 model had the later pivot.

    I was trying to determine whether the swing arm pivot gave an indication to the year of the bike - it being a very obvious difference when seen on a photograph, but I couldn't be certain.

    John

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  9. #37
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    The P models have different swing arm pivot mounts then civ models. At least on this side of the pond.

    Never heard the 110 mph listed before, but can confirm it. With topbox on, no pre-load, no passenger you hit 111 (gps) and the back starts to weave, 112 it weaves more, gently let off the throttle and it settles down, roll on the throttle and it's back. But change a setting, pull off the box or fill in the void and it's fine to speeds of... umm... faster.

    Hmm... haven't checked for the weave since I put a stiffer spring in the tail... wondering...
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  10. #38
    Site Supporter DavidR8's Avatar
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Quote Originally Posted by T_C View Post
    The P models have different swing arm pivot mounts then civ models. At least on this side of the pond.

    Never heard the 110 mph listed before, but can confirm it. With topbox on, no pre-load, no passenger you hit 111 (gps) and the back starts to weave, 112 it weaves more, gently let off the throttle and it settles down, roll on the throttle and it's back. But change a setting, pull off the box or fill in the void and it's fine to speeds of... umm... faster.

    Hmm... haven't checked for the weave since I put a stiffer spring in the tail... wondering...
    Id love to see photos of the pivot on a p model.


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  11. #39
    Site Supporter T_C's Avatar
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    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR8 View Post
    I’d love to see photos of the pivot on a p model.
    Bob (supersabre) discovered it and I think it's documented on the parts fische

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  13. #40

    Re: Major Wobble at high speed - didn't expect it

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkat View Post
    Let's be honest about this, there is far too much going on, from a scientific point of view, for most of us mere mortals to be able to analyse this. If the mighty Big H couldn't sort it and just played dumb then us armchair engineers aren't going to be able to work it out.
    My thought is that there are so many variables, from aerodynamics to weight distribution, through tyre pressure/choice and external environmental conditions (wind and slipstreams), that it has been impossible to fix. It also seems to manifest itself at "illegal" speed, so therefore none of us are likely to experience it, right?
    I often wonder whether that is why Honda never sought to improve/upgrade/develop the Pan.
    Wow an honest and fair minded thought !!!! Watch MotoGP they (with all their engineers and money still get a weave) not all the time but a condition happens to cause it. Think about it, take a gyroscope and spin it, sometimes its good but it just takes the smallest thing to throw it off and it wobbles. On a bike you have two gyroscopes. Just because you have not experienced the weave before doesn't mean you have hit the condition the can cause a weave.

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