Bad o-ring groove on rear wheel hub

Reference the second photo here: http://koczarski.com/mmartin/3rdOring.htm

Q: Has anyone ever had a problem with their 61mm x 2mm o-ring (PNs 91304-KT8-003 or PN 91302-MA6-003) not fitting in its groove (on the right hub of the rear wheel; the final driven flange slips over it).

Last time I was in there doing the work myself (tire change, spring 2016 —*which was also my **first** time in there), the o-ring didn't **seem** to fit right. It seemed to be resting atop the corners of the groove, instead of sitting fully inside it. But I knew it was the right o-ring, so I just shrugged my shoulders and went with it. But I'm sure I cut the o-ring when I slipped the final drive flange over the hub — especially based on all the moly paste that's slung out on my rear wheel ever since then! (And my splines looked pretty dry when I disassembled it all this time.)

I've attached some pics — 01 and 04 are minus the o-ring; 05 and 09 are with.

I've probed the groove with a fine dental pick, and it feels like the side walls of the groove may be damaged. I imagine that's something a machinist should be able to remedy?

And lastly, look at what appears to be flaking / spalling on the end face of the hub. The spacer that sits between it and the final driven flange has a similar appearance. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer ...

The o-ring in question does sit slightly proud of the hub normally. Moly spat out all over the hub innards is not unusual, if too much is applied, even with a good o-ring in there. Did you moly both sides of the thrust washer, (if that's what you called a spacer?) before installation? Definitely appears to have been some unwanted metal to metal contact there. Is your thrust washer metal, or plastic? Honda has used both in that application. The groove doesn't look damaged from the photos. The second part number you mentioned is correct, but I can't say that about the first, as I've never seen a second PN option for that o-ring.

Bush said:

o-ring in question does sit slightly proud of the hub normally.

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Which I could understand, so long as the o-ring is actually sitting on the bottom of the groove all the way around. The more I look at the pics, the easier it is to see that the corners / sides of the groove are not straight. I'm guessing that tens of thousands of miles of riding with the o-ring damaged / missing has taken its toll, and the OD of the final drive flange has deformed the edges of the groove.

Moly spat out all over the hub innards is not unusual

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The last go-round seemed to be more than it had previously been.

Did you moly both sides of the thrust washer, (if that's what you called a spacer?) before installation?

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I honestly don't recall. (And yes, "thrust washer." Thx ... I'm usually a stickler for nomenclature, but my manuals are out in the garage! ;-) )

Is your thrust washer metal, or plastic?

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Metal.

The groove doesn't look damaged from the photos.

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I wish I could agree! Enlarge the first photo — I think you'll see that both the top and bottom edges are ragged, not square / crisp. Also, compare the surfaces above and below the groove (they have a mottled look —*spalling, perhaps?) to the margin immediately adjacent to the groove (looks smooth / shiny / smeared). :-(

I've never seen a second PN option for that o-ring.

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I learned about the other PN from Adam Koczarski's copy of Mike Martin's writeup on "The Elusive 3rd O-ring," at http://koczarski.com/mmartin/3rdOring.htm. (Just FYI ... )

It looks like maybe the spacer between the hub and wheel wasn't there for sometime. I bought one that didn't have the washer and it destroyed the groove for the o-ring.

DaveS said:

It looks like maybe the spacer between the hub and wheel wasn't there for sometime. I bought one that didn't have the washer and it destroyed the groove for the o-ring.

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Butr,
Sorry, but when was that thrust washer (a 42616-MAJ-G20 I think?) ever metal.....? On my bike and all others I've looked at, they are a hard nylon substance.
Roger

DaveS said:

It looks like maybe the spacer between the hub and wheel wasn't there for sometime. I bought one that didn't have the washer and it destroyed the groove for the o-ring.

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Kinda like this?
If memory serves, I bought this wheel from somebody here to use as a spare. Have assumed it is unusable, although in nice shape otherwiswe.

Roger. said:

Butr,
Sorry, but when was that thrust washer (a 42616-MAJ-G20 I think?) ever metal.....? On my bike and all others I've looked at, they are a hard nylon substance.
Roger

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The '95 I had from new came with a metal thrust washer. My '96 has the plastic one.

BUTR said:

Enlarge the first photo — I think you'll see that both the top and bottom edges are ragged, not square / crisp. Also, compare the surfaces above and below the groove (they have a mottled look —*spalling, perhaps?) to the margin immediately adjacent to the groove (looks smooth / shiny / smeared)

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OK, after putting my reading glasses on and looking closer the groove does look damaged. I had noticed the apparent metal to metal wear on the hub before though. This kind of damage can happen when the rubber dampers and aluminum inserts are not replaced when needed. Worn parts there allow the wheel to twist on the hub somewhat, enough to bring the spider into contact with the hub. Further evidence of this can usually be seen under the rubber dampers, where the fingers of the spider rub against the inner hub.

The damage does not look too great yet, as compared to what you see in that pic that Dean has posted. You may want to put it all together again, well lubed with the Moly and see what it looks like in another 5,000 miles. Certainly new dampers and inserts if they are needed.

the aluminum around the bearing in pic #4 has a lot of corrosion. If the rubber dampers have excessive movement that could cause the wear. The soft aluminum may have peeled over the seal edge. If the dampers were tight there would be little movement between the hub and the flange. Check the dampers, file the edges top of the groove ever so lightly lube the ** out of it and put flange on the wheel pull it off and recheck the seal.

Bush said:

The '95 I had from new came with a metal thrust washer. My '96 has the plastic one.

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My 1990 has a steel washer.

Bush said:

The '95 I had from new came with a metal thrust washer. My '96 has the plastic one.

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Removed my rear wheel last week for spline checks & greasing, found my plastic thrust washer disintegrated into few pieces.
Went searching high & low for the washers to no avail on this side of the globe.
Main Honda distributor managed to help place order, sales guy mentioned pre'96 washer was steel and has a different part number with the plastic ones.
Placed order for both steel & plastic since both still available in Honda Japan albeit will take couple of weeks delivery.

Steel thrust washer: 42616-MT3-000
Plastic thrust washer: 42616-MAJ-G20