Looks like we lost a couple more good tire choices

After trying most, if not all, of the tire choices for my Honda ST1300A, I settled on Pirelli Angel GT tires (in standard sizes). I've run about a half dozen sets of them so far with outstanding results, no cupping, no lumps, bumps, wiggles, wobbles, or weaves, and I've been getting around 10,000 miles out of a set as it just starts touching the wear bars. life was good....
However, I just plunked down $350 bucks on a brand new set of them today, shipped from BikeBandit, and was very unhappy to see MADE IN CHINA on the sidewall of both tires. Both tires were dated (4716).
The Angel GT's on my bike that I am about to take off are marked MADE IN GERMANY, as all my other sets have been. Seems Metzeler, which also used to be made in Germany, was made in Spain for a while, and is now also marked MADE IT CHINA.
Looks like I'm going to be a crash test dummy and see how these tires hold up compared to the German made ones (not real happy about this)
Sorry for the long rant, seems to be the way of the world now.
So if your using or going to purchase any tires from Metzeler or Pirelli, you may want to inspect them first if your concerned with tires made in CHINA.
Igofar

Just found this on the internet:

Pirelli-ChemChina-Chinese
China National Chemical Corp (ChemChina) is set to buy into tire-maker Pirelli, with what is currently a €7.1 billion deal. The move would put the 143-year-old Italian company in Chinese ownership, with ChemChina being the majority and controlling shareholder.
ChemChina had planned to offer €15/share to existing Pirelli stock owners, but that number may have to be lifted after a recent rally in the stock’s price. Once the deal concludes though, it is expected that ChemChina will take Pirelli private once the buyout is complete.
The impetus for the buyout is that Pirelli’s knowledge making tires would be a huge asset to ChemChina’s current tire production, not to mention that Pirelli’s free production inventory could be used to make other ChemChina products.
The deal would also give Pirelli a strong footing in the massive Chinese tire market, a significant leg-up in Asia for the Italian brand over its other European competitors.
For those who don’t know, ChemChina is a company that is owned solely by the Chinese government, and it specializes in agrochemicals, rubber products, chemicals, industrial equipment, and petrochemical processing.
Pirelli is the world’s fifth largest tire manufacturer, with roughly a billion euros of debt on its books. That, coupled with the currently weak euro, has made Pirelli an easy target for international corporate takeover.
The structure of the buyout is fairly complex, and at the end of the deal it will likely leave several current Pirelli shareholders in minority positions, including Russian oil company Rosneft.
It is expected that the new Chinese owners will pick a new chairman after the deal concludes, but current Chairman Tronchetti Provera will remain as Pirelli’s Chief Executive Office.
It is worth pointing out that in some financial circles in Italy, counter-offers from Michelin and Continental are expected. Additionally, the increasing stock price of Pirelli could also scuttle the deal, as the market rate for the stock could supersede the price ceiling of ChemChina’s stock offer.

As you said, the way of the world.
It's not going to change.

Thanks for the heads-up Igofar. I'm on my second Angel GT on the front of my 1100, and very happy with them (and they're made in Germany). If you survive your crash-test dummy run, please post your thoughts!

I also had a Metzeler Lasertec made in Brazil, and although I've been a dyed-in-the-wool Metzeler fanboy for decades, this was just garbage.

Tried an older Germany made Tourance on the super ten and a Chinese version, then a similar Germany made Next tire, all gave me back similar mileage so nothing earth shattering there, for me anyway.

For the glass-is-half full crowd it should be noted that some of the newest state of the art tire manufacturing facilities are in China and more are being built. The new factories are more productive and with state of the art computer controlled machinery the tires have less variance in construction and are of higher quality provided the manufacturers are using the same compounds and carcass construction. This situation is similar to what happened after WWII when investment capital went into rebuilding the manufacturing plants of West Europe and Japan. US factories languished and relied on production methods from the first half of the century while Germany and Japan took the lead in quality. It's the way of the world.

Seems if Pirelli is going to make Chinese tires, they should sell them at Chinese prices. Might as well buy Shinkos instead.


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Wow. I don't see a Made in the USA sticker on your cell phones, so why are you hacking on tire production? There is a reason why China is the number one manufacturing country in the world, and yes I agree some items are total junk, but a lot are done very well. Prices, i would hope reflect the cost of manufacturing, but I am sure they wont. Someone gets a bigger bonus somewhere.

Anyone notice that these 'cost savings' moves offshore never have an impact on retail price?

I still have many old Craftsman tools that are USA made, and they show almost no wear on them at all, have you inspected or tried to you any of the new MADE IN CHINA Craftsman tools? I won't even use them as throw a way tools in my roadside tool kit.
The sockets split, crack, and flake chrome, the wrenches spread and round off nuts, the ratchets don't last more than a month or so of normal DIY work in your garage etc. This is why I am concerned with Products made in CHINA!
Craftsman states that they have their tools built to THEIR specifications and quality control.....yeah right.
If I don't die in a spectacular motorcycle accident, I'll post the results as they happen and report back often about these new tires. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Pirelli / Metzeler is one of the worlds leading tire mfgr's, I hope they bring quality to CHINA made tires and not the other way around.
.02

Igofar said:

I still have many old Craftsman tools that are USA made, and they show almost no wear on them at all, have you inspected or tried to you any of the new MADE IN CHINA Craftsman tools? I won't even use them as throw a way tools in my roadside tool kit.
The sockets split, crack, and flake chrome, the wrenches spread and round off nuts, the ratchets don't last more than a month or so of normal DIY work in your garage etc. This is why I am concerned with Products made in CHINA!
Craftsman states that they have their tools built to THEIR specifications and quality control.....yeah right.
If I don't die in a spectacular motorcycle accident, I'll post the results as they happen and report back often about these new tires. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Pirelli / Metzeler is one of the worlds leading tire mfgr's, I hope they bring quality to CHINA made tires and not the other way around.
.02

Click to expand...

Perhaps Craftsman's specs and quality control have lowered over the years as they benefit from the lower production costs, especially from China. I doubt that Chinese manufacturers are hoodwinking all these north american companies by making junk against their wishes or specs. I think most know there will be a quality hit and are taking a gamble with the lure of lower production costs. To add to what dduelin said about state of the art equipment, i think that the chinese are capable of good products, but you cant have it at fire sale prices.... you have to spec what you want and make them adhere to it... .02 more

Agree, China is capable of making good or equivalent quality. I just hate paying German prices for Chinese costs.


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My Metzeler Z6 rear tire dated 2116 was made in Germany. It's possible that they still do make some tires there and have expanded production of different sizes/styles to a new Chinese plant

As an engineer who works for a US company that manufactures primarily in Thailand and China, I think any veiled comments about products made in China are less quality than the US or Europe or way off base. In our case, the manufacturing tooling in China is actually newer and better quality than our US pilot lines. The reason we manufacture in the far east is simply due to the cost of labor and our customer base (whose product lines are also in the far east). We require the Chinese factory to meet the same specs that are imposed on the US lines. So I guess I don't understand (or agree) why you think tires are somehow inferior just because they are made in China.

STPaulK said:

As an engineer who works for a US company that manufactures primarily in Thailand and China, I think any veiled comments about products made in China are less quality than the US or Europe or way off base. In our case, the manufacturing tooling in China is actually newer and better quality than our US pilot lines. The reason we manufacture in the far east is simply due to the cost of labor and our customer base (whose product lines are also in the far east). We require the Chinese factory to meet the same specs that are imposed on the US lines. So I guess I don't understand (or agree) why you think tires are somehow inferior just because they are made in China.

Click to expand...

Being an engineer who works for a US company that manufactures primarily from China, explain to me why the Craftsman Professional wrenches (discontinued) have been replaced by the "Full Polished" made in CHINA pieces of crap, that are twice as thick, poor finish, weaker strength, and often are plated too thick to fit on fasteners. Side by side, it is like comparing Snap On to Harbor Freight stuff.
Craftsman insists that "They require the ones made in China to meet the same specs that they had before" but the truth is, they are not anywhere near the same.
Somebody is pocketing $$$ while they pass of JUNK tools to us with the Craftsman name on them, hoping people will buy them because of the name.

Igofar said:

Being an engineer who works for a US company that manufactures primarily from China, explain to me why the Craftsman Professional wrenches (discontinued) have been replaced by the "Full Polished" mad in CHINA pieces of crap, that are twice as thick, poor finish, weaker strength, and often are plated too thick to fit on fasteners. Side by side, it is like comparing Snap On to Harbor Freight stuff.
Craftsman insists that "They require the ones made in China to meet the same specs that they had before" but the truth is, they are not anywhere near the same.
Somebody is pocketing $$$ while they pass of JUNK tools to us with the Craftsman name on them, hoping people will buy them because of the name.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I can't speak for Craftsman.

Just so there is no confusion about my message. My point is just because something states "Made In China" doesn't automatically disqualify it as substandard or inferior. My company chose to manufacture millions of widgets with the same (and newer versions) of the same equipment we use on our pilot lines in the states with highly trained personnel. But our widgets are considerably more complex and expensive than Craftsman tools and there is no room for looser tolerances, etc.

Igofar said:

Craftsman insists that "They require the ones made in China to meet the same specs that they had before" but the truth is, they are not anywhere near the same.
Somebody is pocketing $$$ while they pass of JUNK tools to us with the Craftsman name on them, hoping people will buy them because of the name.

Click to expand...

Larry I think you answered your own question. There is no reason tools can't be made to the same standards as older Craftsman products. The disparity in quality can't be unnoticed by Craftsman executives (or Black and Decker's for that matter).

Whether Craftsman spokespersons are clueless or turning a blind eye it the real question. Production was moved to China to lower costs and somebody is accepting lower quality results. We wouldn't accept that in our cellphones but then we couldn't afford a cellphone made in the USA. Maybe assembled in the USA. Maybe.

Is Western Forge still making some Craftsman kit and if so is it up to the 'old days' quality?

Sears is definitely having troubles and Craftsman brand is suffering. Black and Decker now owns it while Sears still has some rights to the brand for several years. Then they're done.

I went into a local Sears looking for a a 5mm T-handle. Should be a simple purchase. No. While the Tool section still has the same floor space several locations on the displays were empty. The selections were both smaller and poorly stocked. It looked like the picked over and languished displays of most Best Buy stores I've seen.

There online store is a mess with them apparently serving as a store front for several vendors.

We can look forward to several future generations carrying on the tradition of recalling 'the good old days' and lamenting 'they don't make them like they used to'.

Lets just hope this is not going to be the way of Pirelli tires, as there is a whole lot more riding on them....like my :butt1:

The set that I picked up a month or so ago, numbered 0516 front and 3616 rear, still say "Made In Germany". Must have been a recent switch.