Looks like we lost a couple more good tire choices

Yep, I replaced two other sets for folks last month, and they both were still made In Germany....
Maybe Mellow can come up with a new Emoji sign for a crash test dummy for me....
And so it begins, I will post measurements of the wear bars every 1,000 miles for those interested.
If I can still get 10,000 miles out of a set before hitting the wear bars, and they handle/grip the same I'll stop my sniveling.

Igofar said:

Yep, I replaced two other sets for folks last month, and they both were still made In Germany....
Maybe Mellow can come up with a new Emoji sign for a crash test dummy for me....
And so it begins, I will post measurements of the wear bars every 1,000 miles for those interested.
If I can still get 10,000 miles out of a set before hitting the wear bars, and they handle/grip the same I'll stop my sniveling.

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Not sniveling. This is all good info for all of us. I do have a q. though. Since said Chinese company only bought 65%, Pirelli still has their own quality control standards and a brand to uphold. Sure, they can take a nosedive, but isn't that years away if at all?

Just adding my recent experiences to the thread. I am a pretty big fan of the Angel GT series in general. My rear GT 180/55 A-spec (made in Germany) has passed 10k hard miles,,, and wants to roll another 1000,, and has shown excellent wear and handling. The only issue I have had with it,, is finding a small piece of metal,, possibly bead wire,, cast into the tread face rubber,, which I will put down to a production fluke. My front GT (made in Germany),,, struggled to make 10k miles, with some significant wear and cupping from early on,, and deteriorating handling in late life,,, so it only rates a B mark. The Metzler Z8 (made in China),, that I replaced it with, is wearing and handling excellently, at about 5k miles. So,,, some questionable results from Germany,, and some good results from China product. I am looking forward to testing my next rear tire, a Metzler Roadtec-01 HWM (made in Brazil), once I inevitably must part with the GT. Cheers,, Cat'

SMSW said:

Not sniveling. This is all good info for all of us.

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except for the fact that its not really info, its pure speculation at this point. The tire doesn't know if the person pulling it from the mold speaks German, Italian, Portuguese, or Chinese, that's up to Metzeler/Pirelli to sort out.

I noticed a while back that Craftsman Tools were now made in China. I was disappointed and told the sales droid that I might as well just go to Harbor Freight, they even over the same "no questions asked" free replacement as Craftsman.


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wjbertrand said:

I noticed a while back that Craftsman Tools were now made in China. I was disappointed and told the sales droid that I might as well just go to Harbor Freight, they even over the same "no questions asked" free replacement as Craftsman.


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And that's the bottom line for all of us. If we don't like the quality of the "insert widget name here" we stop buying it and eventually it, and its manufacturer, will go away. FWIW, 59 Sears Canada stores are closing this year. Maybe Canadians aren't buying enough Craftsman tools.

dwalby said:

except for the fact that its not really info, its pure speculation at this point. The tire doesn't know if the person pulling it from the mold speaks German, Italian, Portuguese, or Chinese, that's up to Metzeler/Pirelli to sort out.

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And how does the language the guy pulls the tire from mold speaks affect the tire? Don't more than a few of us ride on Chinese made tires (car and bike)? Don't some of them perform well?

Hankook manufactures tires in China, Hungary, Indonesia, the US as well as Korea. Don't they manage quality control in all of their facilities? Why should we expect Pirelli to be any different, as the rest of my post suggested? I would like to know of a change in mfr'ing locations so that I can keep an eye on what is going on - absent Larry's comment, I probably would not know about the change. Reently guys have been getting stung by and writing about motorcyclelarry's company. Without those posts I too would probably be embroiled in a paid-but-no-merchandise-dispute with them by now.

Isn't that one reason many of us come here?

ST Gui said:

Larry I think you answered your own question. There is no reason tools can't be made to the same standards as older Craftsman products. The disparity in quality can't be unnoticed by Craftsman executives (or Black and Decker's for that matter).

Whether Craftsman spokespersons are clueless or turning a blind eye it the real question. Production was moved to China to lower costs and somebody is accepting lower quality results. We wouldn't accept that in our cellphones but then we couldn't afford a cellphone made in the USA. Maybe assembled in the USA. Maybe.

Is Western Forge still making some Craftsman kit and if so is it up to the 'old days' quality?

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The problem is that many US/European companies, as well as providing the spec requirements to the Chinese company, also hold them to a 'build to' cost. That's when the quality is compromised, corners are cut by the Chinese company to reduce manufacturing costs to meet that goal. Cost is focus number one for companies that do this and quality is lip service at best.

Oldbikefixr said:

Cost is focus number one for companies that do this and quality is lip service at best.

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Which brings us right back to the fact that Craftsman execs have to be aware at this point in time and probably earlier of the quality of their products.

ST Gui said:

Which brings us right back to the fact that Craftsman execs have to be aware at this point in time and probably earlier of the quality of their products.

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Agreed.

ST Gui said:

Which brings us right back to the fact that Craftsman execs have to be aware at this point in time and probably earlier of the quality of their products.

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You think they care?
There is no 'quality' measurement on an annual report. Bonuses are not defined by quality. Execs got there because of ability to make money. When poor $$$ numbers finally catch up due to poor quality.... maybe they notice, or blame it on XXX factors....and if it's bad enough.... they quietly move on with a nice bonus package.
People at the top are too far removed and insulated from their own poor decisions.

scootac said:

You think they care?
There is no 'quality' measurement on an annual report. Bonuses are not defined by quality. Execs got there because of ability to make money. When poor $$$ numbers finally catch up due to poor quality.... maybe they notice, or blame it on XXX factors....and if it's bad enough.... they quietly move on with a nice bonus package.
People at the top are too far removed and insulated from their own poor decisions.

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This is my big objection to the whole ISO Quality mandates. Just another money making scam for the ISO organizations. What started off sounding like a fantastic improvement guideline/certification rapidly gave up it's focus for certification fees.

ISO and European "competent" authorities - don't get me started, but suffice to say the folks in Brussels have run out of useful things to do....


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SMSW said:

And how does the language the guy pulls the tire from mold speaks affect the tire? Don't more than a few of us ride on Chinese made tires (car and bike)? Don't some of them perform well?

Hankook manufactures tires in China, Hungary, Indonesia, the US as well as Korea. Don't they manage quality control in all of their facilities? Why should we expect Pirelli to be any different, as the rest of my post suggested? I would like to know of a change in mfr'ing locations so that I can keep an eye on what is going on - absent Larry's comment, I probably would not know about the change. Reently guys have been getting stung by and writing about motorcyclelarry's company. Without those posts I too would probably be embroiled in a paid-but-no-merchandise-dispute with them by now.

Isn't that one reason many of us come here?

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I see, I misinterpreted your "information" reference to be the speculation that Pirelli tires will be worthless if they're made in China, when you actually were referring to the simple fact that they are now being made in China.

I'm on your side, my language comment was in reference to Metzeler/Pirelli setting up a factory in any country and making sure the quality of each facility is identical, or as nearly identical as possible.

if anyone has any china built tires that they are afraid will explode if mounted they can just send them to me for proper disposal

scootac said:

You think they care?

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Where did you pull that from?

It's about assigning responsibility. The people 'at the top' don't care when the money's good and they're not held responsible. They 'retire' or 'step down' when it hits the fan. That's when they're finally held responsible because they are responsible. Often too little too late. They should know even if they don't.

ST Gui said:

Where did you pull that from?

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Personal experience and observation.

I wish Dunlop would outsource their manufacture of the 908R dual sport tire. I used to be able to find them on sale for under $150. Just a few years later, the number to beat is $250. When I talked with the Dunlop rep at the motorcycle show, he said the cost was so high because it's manufactured only in France.

SMSW said:

And how does the language the guy pulls the tire from mold speaks affect the tire? Don't more than a few of us ride on Chinese made tires (car and bike)? Don't some of them perform well?

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The line worker is seldom the problem. Using cheaper materials, more catalyst/less catalyst/incorrect catalyst, speeding up the cure process, basic corner and cost cutting relative to specs and industry practice is the cause of most manufacturing problems. The worker is just doing what he/she is shown to do by an obviously smarter engineer or manager. Crooked is spoken in every language there is.

Oldbikefixr said:

Crooked is spoken in every language

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Amen But it is believed to be worse in China