Wanting new GPS Zumo 595 or 395

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I currently have a Zumo 660LM. All in all it is adequate but there are some routing features that are very annoying, one particular is if I upload a route with the same start and end point it chokes and does not really know what to do. So what would be considered a round trip route is not a feature that this unit has. The display, touch screen functions, etc. suffice. But maybe it is time to get some newer technology as this unit is at lease 4 years old.

So for those of you who have had the opportunity to own or use both the Zumo 595LM and the 395LM which do you prefer and why? Is the $300 price difference worth it for the 595? The nearest I can tell this price difference is for a slightly larger screen with higher resolution and 3D capabilities, Smartphone integration for weather, Spotify and maybe some other apps.

So give me some compelling reasons to change and to which one.

Thanks
 
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i bought a Zumo 590 after comparing it to the 595. Not a whole lot of difference - i think traffic updates and something else (you need to check for yourself in case I've missed something). The refurb unit cost me 500, from the factory outlet store.

One problem: I ride with a BMW club and the leader usually chooses the route and puts it on his GPS. The Basecamp file is sent to everyone and many of us download it to our devices. The problem is that different GPS units determine the waypoint to waypoint route differently, and presets (auto, mc, toll road avoidance, etc.) will make an even bigger difference. Other than that, I have had no problems with the unit.
 

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I have had the 550, the 660 and currently have the 590. The 595 has additional features to the 590, the 595 / 395 both have what is known as the Trip Planner App.

I have to say - the 595 and the 395 will drive you mad when you first get it. It behaves in a completely different way from the way in which the 660 navigates, and if you miss certain Via Points on your route, it will forever try to take you back to them. Ok if you know the area and can remember where the various intermediate points are, so that you can ask the satnav to skip them. Much more of a problem if you are in an unknown area. I took mine out from home for a 3 mile circuit with 4 via points. And it got me lost. That is - I knew where I was, but I hadn't got a clue where the satnav was trying to take me.

As a result, I wrote this - which I suggest you read before deciding. Its aimed at the 590, but applies just as well to the 595.

Now - the 660.

The main feature that I miss is the way in which the 660 will show you the intermediate points on the route, but if you decide not to visit the particular point, it will not insist on taking you back there once you have joined the magenta route again. It works better in this respect if auto-recalculate is turned off.

Let me explain that a little more clearly. You are heading from A to C. Point B is a slight detour, taking you off the main road, into a village, and re-joining the main road a little later. So when riding, the satnav wants to take you to point B. You ignore it and with auto recalculate turned off, the route doesn't change. You are no longer following a magenta route, but up ahead, you can see on the display where you will meet the magenta route as it emerges from its visit to point B. As soon as you do, the satnav will continue to navigate you point C.

If auto-recalculate is turned on, the same will happen, but the satnav will keep trying to get you to Point B via different routes. Until you hit the magenta route after it has been to Point B - in which case it will then navigate you to point C.

The downside of this is the circular route. You can't have them as such. The reason for this is that when you set off, you are already on the last part of the magenta route. And - you are already at the finish. So it stops navigating !

There are three ways round this.
1) Make your route finish before you get home (if your route is from home).
2) Make your route start further up the road from where you actually intend to start. Select GO, but do NOT allow it to navigate you to the start. Say NO. Set off and as soon as you pass the start point, the satnav will start to navigate you.
3) Put in a circular route which starts and finishes at the same point, set up your satnav to navigate, but do NOT press GO. As soon as you have ridden away from the start (and away from the route on which you will return), then you can press GO and the satnav will follow your route faithfully.

This may seem contrived, but you will find that the 595 has similar issues - and for that see the write-up that I produced after tearing my hair out with my 590.

The 590 / 595 has a much faster processor, which is nice. It doesn't have a speaker. They dim the backlight very quickly when the unit has been out of the cradle for a few minutes. You cannot set up audio without the audio device being connected.
Having said that, it has a very comprehensive range of devices that it can connect to, including BT stereo. I wanted to change as I could never get the 660 to work with voice out from my mobile phone. No such problems with the 590.

One last thing - it is very difficult to predict how the 590 will behave when navigating. It seems to learn your riding preferences - I assume preferred routes and speeds on different types of roads - which seem to affect its chosen route when getting you from A to B - depending on how you have been riding recently.

Would I go back to my 660 ?
Well - Yes and No. No - I have got used to the many quirks of the 590. Yes as I miss the usability of the 660. It seems to me that the programmers have produced a technically excellent device in the 590 at the expense of the functional aspect for the rider.

That's a pretty involved instant answer - but I got to know the 660 extremely well, and have done the same with the Trip Planner App on the 590.
Anything you need to know about the two, just ask.
 
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Trapperdog

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While technologically leaps ahead of all my old zumo 550's, my 595lm can hardly be seen in daylight making it almost useless to me. I haven't been able to compair it to another 595lm and all adjustments are where they should be. Great a night though
 
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It comes down to whether you need (or really want) the additional features of the 595. I bought the 395. I'd have purchased another Zumo 550 if they were still in production.
 
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It comes down to whether you need (or really want) the additional features of the 595. I bought the 395. I'd have purchased another Zumo 550 if they were still in production.
What he said. I have the 595 and have enjoyed it, really depends on what you want it to do or not do. Little over kill for me and put a sunshade on mine to help with the sun. Direct sunlight is an issue with most.
 
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While technologically leaps ahead of all my old zumo 550's, my 595lm can hardly be seen in daylight making it almost useless to me. I haven't been able to compair it to another 595lm and all adjustments are where they should be. Great a night though
Mine is hard to see in daylight too. Much better on overcast days or when it is very dark because of an incoming squall (but before the rain). BTW, the 590/595 have a 'transmisive screen' that is supposed to be light years ahead of the other screens. My perspective? It is not. My cheap first Garmin Nuvi (with memory too small to download USA maps today) had the best and brightest screen of all. Garmin's new models seem to have gotten progressively more difficult to see in sunlight.

As a result, I wrote this - which I suggest you read before deciding. Its aimed at the 590, but applies just as well to the 595.
Thanks John, your other thread is very helpful (the link).
 
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jfheath

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my 595lm can hardly be seen in daylight making it almost useless to me.
Mine is hard to see in daylight too.
I don't have issues with brightness. The 590 / 595 (and I guess the 395) will dim the backlight when the unit isn't powered - there is no control over that - as soon as it detects the battery is suffering, the brightness drops to about 40%. This can be anything from immediately to 30 minutes after turning it on (out of the cradle).

I wonder if you are being caught out by the different modes or the need for external power to obtain the brighter settings. The 590 is much brighter than the 660.

It is also worth noting is that the Zumo has a number of modes (each model seems to do something different) - eg Car Cradle / Motorcycle Cradle / Out of Cradle. The unit remembers the settings for each mode. So changing the settings for one mode of use, doesn't necessarily change it for a different mode. It might be worth checking that the brightness is set correctly when the unit is in the bike and the unit is powered from the bike's battery. I can't remember if the 590 stores the brightness setting separately for each mode. I think that it does.

Although the 590 / 595 detects which cradle the unit is in, it is possible to get the modes and the preferences the wrong way round - and have car preferences being displayed when it is in the bike cradle, and bike preferences being displayed when it is in the car cradle (Yes, right).

Make sure the unit is in the cradle. Make sure the cradle is powered by the bike and the power is on. Then set the transportation mode to bike and set the settings / display / brightness to 100%.
 
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Thought I would mention a couple features on my 590 that don't get much press. On Saturday my wife had a baby shower to attend about 3 hours from home. I suggested we take the bike and I would drop her off and pick her up 2 hours later. Not being real familiar with area, after I dropped her off, I used the 'Round Trip" app. This allows you to do a loop and specify how many miles or how much time you want it to take. Then I use my other favorite option which is "Curvy Roads" found under route calculation. The 2 of these together had me smiling for 2 hours. Very handy features that the 660 doesn't have.
 

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Thought I would mention a couple features on my 590 that don't get much press. On Saturday my wife had a baby shower to attend about 3 hours from home. I suggested we take the bike and I would drop her off and pick her up 2 hours later. Not being real familiar with area, after I dropped her off, I used the 'Round Trip" app. This allows you to do a loop and specify how many miles or how much time you want it to take. Then I use my other favorite option which is "Curvy Roads" found under route calculation. The 2 of these together had me smiling for 2 hours. Very handy features that the 660 doesn't have.
hmmm.. never explored that option.. thanks!
 
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Thanks all for providing comments on the 595 and 395. Also I do see that the 590 is still available as refurbs at a reasonable price. If the functionality differences are not that great I may head down that path.
 
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John, so I have read your documents and have watched the videos and have found them enlightening as I really don't care for Basecamp, but maybe because I find it clumsy to use. But with that said I will give it another try.

I do have a couple of questions, either I missed it or you didn't cover it. First I currently have a 660LM so some of the items discussed won't apply, but let's use the 590 as the example. In your last couple of videos you talk a lot about profiles, how they work and custom profiles.

1. If when a route is transferred and imported to the 590 will it retain the profile that was used to create the route within Basecamp?
2. If so, then if multiple routes are transferred and imported will they each retain their specific profile configurations?
3. And finally if a custom profile is created in Basecamp and associated to a route will the custom profile be transferred as part of the process? Will the satnav now have that custom profile stored as an option?

I will have more questions but I need answers first. Thanks.
 
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My biggest gripe about the 595 is that the arrival times are very inaccurate. My 660 and 665 were always dead on but the 595 will calculate a long ride (600+) with an arrival off by at least 3 hours. And that's a problem in a rally folks!

Bob
 

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John, so I have read your documents and have watched the videos and have found them enlightening as I really don't care for Basecamp, but maybe because I find it clumsy to use. But with that said I will give it another try.

I do have a couple of questions, either I missed it or you didn't cover it. First I currently have a 660LM so some of the items discussed won't apply, but let's use the 590 as the example. In your last couple of videos you talk a lot about profiles, how they work and custom profiles.

1. If when a route is transferred and imported to the 590 will it retain the profile that was used to create the route within Basecamp?
2. If so, then if multiple routes are transferred and imported will they each retain their specific profile configurations?
3. And finally if a custom profile is created in Basecamp and associated to a route will the custom profile be transferred as part of the process? Will the satnav now have that custom profile stored as an option?

I will have more questions but I need answers first. Thanks.
Now, there's a question.

I spent a bit of time looking at these issues and i have some pretty firm beliefs about what goes on, but i cannot be 100% certain that they are correct. However, nothing has yet cropped up to make me change my mind.

When a route is transferred, basecamp does seem to transfer an indication of the type of activity profile being used. I can see, for example, in the gpx file that is sent, that the word 'motorcycle' is sent if a motorcycle profile has been used in basecamp.

However, i have found no evidence that the detail used within the basecamp profile is transmitted to the zumo. By that, i mean things like travelling speeds, route avoidances, faster time / shorter distance etc etc.

In basecamp, the profile concept allows you to plot a number of routes with exactly the Same parameters as each other. Then if you decide that you want to change a parameter such as avoiding toll roads, you can change the info in the motorcycle profile. But that changes the routing of every single route that has benn plotted with the motorcycle profile. I tend to use custom profiles in basecamp because of this, then the preferences are saved in basecamp with the route.

On the zumo, you have 3 or 4 activity profiles. Car, motorcycle, off road. You can set the preferences on the zumo itself, and it will retain these preferences for each of the 3 profiles. You can change the zumo profile by clicking the tiny car or motorcycle icon at the top of the Display, or you can put the zumo into the appropriate cradle, and it will switch the profile to whatever mode you selected the last time it was in the cradle. Note that it possible to get the zumo to activate the car profile when you plug into the bike cradle, and vice versa. And you have to be aware that when you set the zumo up without it being in the cradle, when you plug it into the bike cradle, some of those settings will change. And they will change again when you plug it into the car cradle. That is true for the 660 too.

Ok. So to try to answer the question specifically.

Create a route with the motoercycle profile. The route consists of via points, shaping points and gpxx 'ghost' points. If you have the same version of the map in basecamp and on your stanav, the route will transfer exactly as it appeared in basecamp. Ie it will not recalculate. No matter what mode your zumo is in, and regardless of what profile was used in basecamp, and what profile is active in the zumo. The profiles are irrelevant at this point. It navigates the route that was transferred. Exactly.

The issue comes when the route is recalculated, for whatever reason. Now the satnav is using its own software to plot the route, and it willmuse its currently active profile in order to do that. That is, whatever you set up on the zumo for routing preferences in motorcycle, car, or off road - depending on which one is currently active.

It doesn't have access to the level of detail in the profiles from basecamp, as far as i have been able to make out. So info about speeds on different types of roads is gone ( but see later for the 595). There are other settings in basecamp that have no equivalent on the zumo. So when the zumo recalculates, it just uses what has been set in the zumo. However, the zumo does know that the route was set up using a motorcycle profile, so i believe that when it recalculates, it will use the settings in the zumo mor motorcycle routing - i assume it will do this no matter which cradle it is in, but i haven't tested this out.

The 595 builds up its own routing preferences as you ride. It knows which raods you prefer if you have ridden them a few times. It seems to keep track of how fast you ride on particular type of road. This is so that it can give a better ETA. but it may also affect calculation if you set navigation to 'fastest' time. You can clear this, but in doing so you have to also clear out your trip logs (20 of them on the 595), so if you like to keep these, make sure you have saved them on your computer first. You can also stop it recording this info, but that also disables the trip log feature, and i like to keep the logs of where i have been.

As i said, the zumo profile is used if the route has to recalculate, otherwise it keeps the original basecamp route. If you have auto recalc turned off, then it stays with what you had in basecamp.

If recalc is turned on, then and you go off route - even slightly, then the current section if the route is recalculated using the zumo preferences. That is the section between where you are now and the next routing point - shaping or via.

A few years ago. The maps and the logic seemed to be pretty accurate. I now find that basecamp or the satnav will try to take me up a small parallel side road when riding through a village - i assume because the road has no speed classification stored, so it assumes no speed limit and thinks it will be faster ! Ignore it and the route recalculates.

All of this was why i put so much emphasis on using via or shaping points on the roads you want to take after key points on the route. That way, the zumo tends to calculate the same route that basecamp did.


So short answer. I believe that the profile in basecamp has absoultely nothing to do with how the zumo calculates a route. Except for the name, which seems to use to activate the same named profile on the zumo, but which may have different oreferences set.

But all of this is what i believe. If someone reading this has other information, i would live to know about it !
 

jfheath

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My biggest gripe about the 595 is that the arrival times are very inaccurate. My 660 and 665 were always dead on but the 595 will calculate a long ride (600+) with an arrival off by at least 3 hours. And that's a problem in a rally folks!
I don't see that on mine - although max route has been just over 300 miles.

A common problem is putting a shaping point onto the wrong side of a dual carriageway. The 595 recalculates silently, and will not force you to revisit a shaping point. But that doesn't sound like your problem.

Try clearing the logged data - the 595 remembers your riding speeds on particular types of road and uses that to calculate ETA - sort of building up your own particular riding profile. But if you like to keep your trip logs, save the GPX files first, because they may go as well - They are in the GPX/Archive folder. The 595 retains the most recent 20 files, overwriting the oldest. It might be that your recent riding style isn't the same as how you ride on your 600 mile trips. You can turn this feature off, but then it stops recording where you have been in the log files.
 

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Does anyone happen to know if the 660LM remembers your preference for types of roads to ride? I swap my 660 between the ST, Wing, and a 650 V-Strom. If it does remember the types of road, it might explain why it wanted me to take the Wing through a gravel creek crossing on my ride yesterday. I've been very disappointed at its routing to destinations, and have been thinking about upgrading, probably to the 595.

John
 
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Does anyone happen to know if the 660LM remembers your preference for types of roads to ride? I swap my 660 between the ST, Wing, and a 650 V-Strom. If it does remember the types of road, it might explain why it wanted me to take the Wing through a gravel creek crossing on my ride yesterday. I've been very disappointed at its routing to destinations, and have been thinking about upgrading, probably to the 595.
I never thought about it until you mentioned it. I do the same thing. Swap the GPS between vehicles. But when in the car cradle I do keep it set to Motorcycle. I have similar issues with route when back on the bike. I have used a significant number of route points when planning a route. I learned this years ago using MS Streets and Trips with the ZUMO.
 
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I don't see that on mine - although max route has been just over 300 miles.

A common problem is putting a shaping point onto the wrong side of a dual carriageway. The 595 recalculates silently, and will not force you to revisit a shaping point. But that doesn't sound like your problem.

Try clearing the logged data - the 595 remembers your riding speeds on particular types of road and uses that to calculate ETA - sort of building up your own particular riding profile. But if you like to keep your trip logs, save the GPX files first, because they may go as well - They are in the GPX/Archive folder. The 595 retains the most recent 20 files, overwriting the oldest. It might be that your recent riding style isn't the same as how you ride on your 600 mile trips. You can turn this feature off, but then it stops recording where you have been in the log files.
John, I do not see this happening on my 590 or my 276cx. The ETA's are off significantly and do not seem to learn my riding style. I run rallies where every minute counts and I can beat its ETA by 10 minutes/hour. I end up using my old Nuvi 550 for accurate ETA's...on that unit if I don't run 10 over the limit, I LOSE time on my ETA. I've looked at every possible setting to get the 590 to take speed into account and after 100K miles I have given up.
 
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And that's a problem in a rally folks!

Bob
Big Time!! I was so worried I'd lose power to my Nuvi 550 (the mini usb connectors suck) in the IBR. I actually bought a backup. Like you said Bob, the 590 can be off by hours using the same roads that my 550 uses. One thing to consider is traffic....if you are using that app, I believe it will add time to your eta. But, I've used it enough to know that it will never give me an eta that is faster than the speed limit.
 

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John, I do not see this happening on my 590 or my 276cx. The ETA's are off significantly and do not seem to learn my riding style. I run rallies where every minute counts and I can beat its ETA by 10 minutes/hour. I end up using my old Nuvi 550 for accurate ETA's...on that unit if I don't run 10 over the limit, I LOSE time on my ETA. I've looked at every possible setting to get the 590 to take speed into account and after 100K miles I have given up.
Hmmm. Not sure about this then. I find the ETA on this and on the 660 to be pretty good. The 550 was atrocious and seemed to assume that progress would be made at exactly the speed limit for a given road - not taking into account slowing down for bends or road junctions. About 30 minutes from the destination it would start to make adjustments, and the ETA would move away from you faster than the progress being made !

The 660 seemed to address that and came up with a pretty reliable ETA, but the 590/595 have additional info to work with. I have to say that the fastest time it calculates is not always the fastest time - it seems to prefer going on the faster roads when plotting a route, even if it takes a detour to get to them. I have frequently ignored the suggested route to take my own preferred route, and when the satnav recalculates, the ETA has reduced. I repeated the exercise having cleared all of the logs, and it did the same. So there is something going on that I do not understand as yet.

However, I still find the ETA to be acceptable. It does seem to take into account recent travelling speed, as if you ride significantly under the speed limit for a while, the ETA extends much more than the amount of time lost by travelling slowly. It seems to assume that I will continue riding at that speed.
The satnavs clearly take into account the speed limit of the roads in order to calculate ETA. Whether or not it adapts if you ride over the speed limit, I wouldn't know, as I don't do that. But its a question worth considering.

Did you clear the logs from the unit (ie delete the 20 GPX files in the GPX\Archive folder) plus the CurrentTrackLog.gpx file in the Archive Folder ?
Do you have a smartphone traffic link enabled on your 590 ?
Is 'trafficTrends' enabled or disabled. (this is an available option even without a smartphone link, but not sure how it works).
Does your route recalculate much when riding (The 590/595 does this silently, so its possible no to notice it).
When you say you can beat its ETA by 10 minutes every hour, do you mean its original ETA ?

There's a lot I still don't know about the 590/595, but I keep working at it - so any observations you have would be useful. That and Grabcon's questions have got me thinking again.

Oh - last thing to consider - there are times when the unit resets itself to factory settings, so all of your profile settings in the unit itself are reset. It is probably when the battery has been removed, but I think that it happens at other times too - perhaps if the battery has gone flat. I've not pinned it down yet - as I usually notice only half an hour or so into a ride, when it starts doing things unexpectedly.
 
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