Technique for starting from a standing stop

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this question but here goes:
We bought our '05 in early Sept. I'm coming off a Triumph Tiger 955i.

I'm trying to figure out if there's something up with the bike or my technique.
Starting out from a standing stop, engine fully warmed, if I keep the engine around 1500 rpm or so all is good, smooth pull away, no noise, nothing.
If I increase the rpm to about 2000 or so there is a real clatter, almost like I'm lugging it. Above 2200 rpm or so it's a bit quieter.

It seems illogical to me that I can pull away away at 1500 rpm without any noise, yet 2000 rpm sounds like a bucket of bolts being rattled.
I adjusted the counter balancer alignment and it made no difference.

Any suggestions?

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

Technique or engine problem?

(cross-posted from Riding Techniques)
I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this question but here goes:
We bought our '05 in early Sept. I'm coming off a Triumph Tiger 955i.

I'm trying to figure out if there's something up with my technique or the bike.
Starting out from a standing stop, engine fully warmed, if I keep the engine around 1500 rpm or so all is good, smooth pull away, no noise, nothing.
If I increase the rpm to about 2000 or so there is a real clatter, almost like I'm lugging it. Above 2200 rpm or so it's a bit quieter.

It seems illogical to me that I can pull away away at 1500 rpm without any noise, yet 2000 rpm sounds like a bucket of bolts being rattled.
I adjusted the counter balancer alignment and it made no difference.

Any suggestions?

Igofar · Oct 27, 2017

Your right foot should be on the rear brake pedal and not dragging behind as you take off.
You'll find the bike likes to be near 3-4K when taking off.
Try raising the RPM to around this area, start letting the clutch out, the same time you release pressure from the foot pedal.
Get your feet on the pegs as soon as the bike starts moving for better balance and control.
If your trying to start moving at 1500 RPM, your not doing your engine any favors, and are lugging the engine.
Its a Vee Four, not a V-Twin :rofl1:

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

Igofar said:
Your right foot should be on the rear brake pedal and not dragging behind as you take off.
You'll find the bike likes to be near 3-4K when taking off.
Try raising the RPM to around this area, start letting the clutch out, the same time you release pressure from the foot pedal.
Get your feet on the pegs as soon as the bike starts moving for better balance and control.
If your trying to start moving at 1500 RPM, your not doing your engine any favors, and are lugging the engine.
Its a Vee Four, not a V-Twin

Seriously? 3-4K? That's unlike any other bike I've ridden. My teeny Yamaha 400 would basically pull away at a bit above tickover.

STGuy · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

DavidR8 said:
(cross-posted from Riding Techniques)
I'm a bit embarrassed to ask this question but here goes:
We bought our '05 in early Sept. I'm coming off a Triumph Tiger 955i.

I'm trying to figure out if there's something up with my technique or the bike.
Starting out from a standing stop, engine fully warmed, if I keep the engine around 1500 rpm or so all is good, smooth pull away, no noise, nothing.
If I increase the rpm to about 2000 or so there is a real clatter, almost like I'm lugging it. Above 2200 rpm or so it's a bit quieter.

It seems illogical to me that I can pull away away at 1500 rpm without any noise, yet 2000 rpm sounds like a bucket of bolts being rattled.
I adjusted the counter balancer alignment and it made no difference.

Any suggestions?

That sounds strange to me. I don't believe that it is your technique.

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SupraSabre · Oct 27, 2017

DavidR8 said:
Seriously? 3-4K? That's unlike any other bike I've ridden. My teeny Yamaha 400 would basically pull away at a bit above tickover.

Your 400 wasn't pulling 750 (+ rider) lbs either! :spank1:

st1300r · Oct 27, 2017

+1 Keep it in the fun zone. The shift points in the manual are an absolute joke.

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

Thanks everyone,
I think my question wasn't clear:
I'm really trying to figure out why starting from 1500 rpm is a non-event while starting from 2000 rpm makes me wonder if it's going to hold together.

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

SupraSabre said:
Your 400 wasn't pulling 750 (+ rider) lbs either!

In all fairness, the XS400 weighed 400+ lbs and made a measly 27 hp. That's a power to weight ratio of about 1 hp to 14 lbs whereas the ST1300 is 1 hp to 5 lbs or three times better.
Torque is the real world measure of 'get up and go'. The XS400 had, wait for it...a pavement wrinkling 24 ft/lbs of torque or 16 ft/lbs per lb of weight vs. the ST which puts out 86 ft/lbs or 8 ft/lbs per lb of weight or basically double.

jimbo · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

DavidR8 said:
2000 rpm sounds like a bucket of bolts being rattled.

That doesn't sound right to me.

dwalby · Oct 27, 2017

DavidR8 said:
I'm really trying to figure out why starting from 1500 rpm is a non-event while starting from 2000 rpm makes me wonder if it's going to hold together.

given your previous experience with a loose plug cap/wire, ignition issues would be my first thought. They're often RPM related and illogical.

The basic explanation for it being RPM dependent is the cylinder pressure has a lot to do with the ignition voltage required to jump a spark. At certain RPMs and throttle settings the pressure is such that it sparks OK, and at others it doesn't.

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

dwalby said:
given your previous experience with a loose plug cap/wire, ignition issues would be my first thought. They're often RPM related and illogical.

The basic explanation for it being RPM dependent is the cylinder pressure has a lot to do with the ignition voltage required to jump a spark. At certain RPMs and throttle settings the pressure is such that it sparks OK, and at others it doesn't.

Thanks, that's what I'm thinking also. I'll check that #3 lead hasn't loosened up again and if I can find my Fluke meter test the plugs and leads over the weekend.

Al st1100 · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

I usually just start letting the clutch out before giving it gas. It sounds like gas ping , maybe, are you using premium fuel?

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

Technique or engine problem?

Yup, that's kind of what sounds like. I do fill only with premium.

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STGuy · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

I don't ever use premium anymore. All 5 of my Honda's run on regular. Even if I am pulling my cargo trailer chock full with the wing. ST has never had premium so this shouldn't be the reason unless your timing has been advanced to much.
I do throw in sea foam for winter storage and maybe a tank per summer to keep things clean[emoji4]

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jfheath · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

It would be good to be able to hear what you are hearing, if that is possible. If it was an 1100, id have no hesitation about mentioning the heat shields, but just cos its a 1300 doesn't mean that there isn't a simple explanation.

If it sounds like a bucket of bolts, then go on a bolt hunt. A good place to start is the v formed by the exhaust pipes as they run by the sump - a good place for dropped nuts to come to rest. Try the fairing mounting bolt stalk near the ignition coil. Check the silencer clamps and the exhaust manifold bolts.

And when you have exhausted everthing else, remove that bunch of keys from the fairing pocket.

And yes, i've had all of these.

Don B · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

STGUY said:
That sounds strange to me. I don't believe that it is your technique.

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Definitely doesn't sound good to me either. I think David may want to have a trusted motorcycle riding friend with a few years of riding experience ride his ST a couple of miles or so to give his feedback.

DavidR8 · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

Don B said:
Definitely doesn't sound good to me either. I think David may want to have a trusted motorcycle riding friend with a few years of riding experience ride his ST a couple of miles or so to give his feedback.

Thanks Don,
I'm going to see if I can connect with the other fellow on the forum who lives in the same city as I do.
I want to ride another ST so I can rule out bike vs ST specific technique.

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ST Gui · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

My money is on an engine issue and not your technique. The ST's engine/drive train is not so special that it requires any special skill or training to keep from lugging the engine and it pulls evenly (in my experience) pretty far up the tach.

I never look at that tach when starting off but I well next time to see at what RPM gets me rolling. I'm a fairly sedate rider and the bike seldom sees 4,000rpm unless I'm on the highway or in a much bigger hurry than I should be.

T_C · Oct 27, 2017

Re: Technique or engine problem?

I was curious; on my way home I started watching the tach when leaving at stoplights. Generally I give it a little gas before I start to let the clutch out, about 1500 rpm is when I start to relrasr the clutch but I keep feeind gas and I'm not fully clutch out until about 2200.

I don;t normally watch the tach, just go by feel and muscle memory.

But if limping along at 2k and you go open throttle.. expect to hear a rumble rattle, unless you are in first gear and then just wait for the acceleration.

Technique for starting from a standing stop

DavidR8

DavidR8

Igofar

DavidR8

STGuy

Play it makes life fun

SupraSabre

48 Years of SoCal Lane Splitting/Commuting-Retired

st1300r

DavidR8

DavidR8

jimbo

dwalby

DavidR8

Al st1100

DavidR8

STGuy

Play it makes life fun

jfheath

John Heath

Don B

DavidR8

ST Gui

240Robert

T_C