Technique for starting from a standing stop

Re: Technique or engine problem?

ST Gui said:

My money is on an engine issue and not your technique. The ST's engine/drive train is not so special that it requires any special skill or training to keep from lugging the engine and it pulls evenly (in my experience) pretty far up the tach.

I never look at that tach when starting off but I well next time to see at what RPM gets me rolling. I'm a fairly sedate rider and the bike seldom sees 4,000rpm unless I'm on the highway or in a much bigger hurry than I should be.

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Thanks, I'd appreciate the info.
I just arrived home in the bike.
Confirmed my earlier thesis: starting off at 1500 rpm is smooth. 2000 rpm is clattery.


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Technique or engine problem?

T_C said:

I was curious; on my way home I started watching the tach when leaving at stoplights. Generally I give it a little gas before I start to let the clutch out, about 1500 rpm is when I start to relrasr the clutch but I keep feeind gas and I'm not fully clutch out until about 2200.

I don;t normally watch the tach, just go by feel and muscle memory.

But if limping along at 2k and you go open throttle.. expect to hear a rumble rattle, unless you are in first gear and then just wait for the acceleration.

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Ok that's brilliant!
That is very helpful information and definitely lines up with my experience. [emoji1]
I try not to drop below 2000 rpm because I definitely feel the rumble as the engine picks up steam.

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Re: Technique or engine problem?

DavidR8 said:

Ok that’s brilliant!
That is very helpful information and definitely lines up with my experience. [emoji1]
I try not to drop below 2000 rpm because I definitely feel the rumble as the engine picks up steam.

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Yes, ST's do not like going open throttle below 3500. You can GENTLY accelerate at 2500, as long as it is really flat or downhill. But too much right twist and you'll hear the engine complain. For practice you can let the clutch out while the engine is idling, but very carefully. In the mornings while crawling along I even get it up to 5th gear and never touch the throttle. Cruises along about 20mph in 5th while idling. Do not try to accelerate from here, but if in long slow traffic lines you can modulate your speed with shifting up/down and no twist of the right hand.

Re: Technique or engine problem?

Thanks T_C, that's terrific information. Really appreciate it!


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I could put my GL1800 in second gear, and let the clutch out, without touching the throttle, and still pull away cleanly.
Yes, while it is possible to begin movement at 1500 RPM, your clutch is taking the load, when you apply more, it sounds like your taxing it too much (lugging it) and its starting to complain.
Gently roll the throttle to 3K and start letting the clutch out and see how it reacts
My nephews little 250 Ninja operates around 10,000 to 15,000 RPM on the freeway and this is where it likes to be.

Igofar said:

Gently roll the throttle to 3K and start letting the clutch out and see how it reacts

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Seriously, is this the way you ride? I can't agree with that at all. Anyone who has taken training is taught to let the clutch out just until the friction point is felt and then slowly roll on the throttle as the clutch is fully released. I can imagine the looks one would get at any intersection if the engine was wound up to 3 grand before pulling away from a stop! And for a novice to try this, it could quickly end in disaster.

Re: Technique or engine problem?

DavidR8 said:

Thanks Don,
I'm going to see if I can connect with the other fellow on the forum who lives in the same city as I do.
I want to ride another ST so I can rule out bike vs ST specific technique.




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I have to retract what I responded in my first reply (post #8), after seeing TC's post #11. He hit the nail on the head if you were talking about putting the engine under load at 2000 rpm, i.e., in something other than first gear. The ST doesn't like the engine being put under load at low rpm.

Re: Technique or engine problem?

DavidR8 said:

Starting out from a standing stop, engine fully warmed, if I keep the engine around 1500 rpm or so all is good, smooth pull away, no noise, nothing.
If I increase the rpm to about 2000 or so there is a real clatter, almost like I'm lugging it. Above 2200 rpm or so it's a bit quieter.

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I've been studying this post, both here and on the other thread you had going and my question is - Why are you reving up to 2000 rpm to pull away anyway? As you know, it isn't necessary to move away cleanly. There are many posts on both threads giving their thoughts, but it seems there is a lack of clarity on just what your issue is.

Certainly, if you lug an engine, it will sound like a bucket of bolts, so you can't whack the throttle open from a very low RPM in gears higher than first, but that is not speaking to what you seem to be saying. What I read is that if you rev up to 2,000 BEFORE letting out the clutch at all, you are getting the bucket of bolts sound. Is that correct?

I agree with Dave - something is wrong somewhere. Regardless of what rpm I start out with, my bike moves uphil smoothly from a hill stop. I have to admit, sometimes I've over revved a bit when there is traffic and I want to accelerate smartly (or its a steep hill) and occasionally under rev - but I've never heard any chatter from the clutch or engine. And, since nobody has questioned this before here, I have to guess most ST'ers have not had your experience either.

Bush said:

Anyone who has taken training is taught to let the clutch out just until the friction point is felt and then slowly roll on the throttle as the clutch is fully released. I can imagine the looks one would get at any intersection if the engine was wound up to 3 grand before pulling away from a stop! And for a novice to try this, it could quickly end in disaster.

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I would imagine that this is how most of us ride. The st engine is very torquey. It has never been an issue for me. I would be surprised if he is lugging his engine. I believe David has a real mechanical issue.

Just for clarity, I don't consider myself a novice. [emoji1]


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DavidR8 said:

In all fairness, the XS400 weighed 400+ lbs and made a measly 27 hp. That's a power to weight ratio of about 1 hp to 14 lbs whereas the ST1300 is 1 hp to 5 lbs or three times better.
Torque is the real world measure of 'get up and go'. The XS400 had, wait for it...a pavement wrinkling 24 ft/lbs of torque or 16 ft/lbs per lb of weight vs. the ST which puts out 86 ft/lbs or 8 ft/lbs per lb of weight or basically double.

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Believe it or not, I know exactly what a XS400 could do, Even with it, anything below 2,500 - 3,000 was lugging it!



I was watching my revs tonight on my way home, from a stop, I was hitting 3K when the clutch was being let out, and that was for a "slow" roll-on.

I'm definitely not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to understand why my bike will start from 1500 rpm with nary an unpleasant sound while at 2000 rpm, an engine speed I would assume would have more torque, it's clattery.

At the end of the day (which it is here on the West Coast) I'll just learn to deal with its proclivities.


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Re: Technique or engine problem?

Bush said:

I've been studying this post, both here and on the other thread you had going and my question is - Why are you reving up to 2000 rpm to pull away anyway? As you know, it isn't necessary to move away cleanly. There are many posts on both threads giving their thoughts, but it seems there is a lack of clarity on just what your issue is.

Certainly, if you lug an engine, it will sound like a bucket of bolts, so you can't whack the throttle open from a very low RPM in gears higher than first, but that is not speaking to what you seem to be saying. What I read is that if you rev up to 2,000 BEFORE letting out the clutch at all, you are getting the bucket of bolts sound. Is that correct?

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No that is incorrect.
When I start at 1500 rpm it's fine. If I'm trying to leave a bit quicker and take it up to 2000 rpm it's clattery.

It's probably just me and I'll get used to it.


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Your bike starts at 1500 without an unpleasant sound because you are not putting a load on it, as soon as you open the throttle and start twisting the grip 500 more RPM you are putting a load on it, and it is complaining because the RPM are not in the range that it (v-4) likes to operate in. Watch some of the Police Rodeo meets on youtube, and LISTEN to what they are doing with their engines. Most of them Pin the throttle at 4,000 RPM, and keep it there, then simply ride the bike with the friction zone etc.
I'm not saying this is what any of you should do, because its very hard on the clutch/bike, but I'm just pointing out that starting around 3,000 RPM is normal with these machines, and it does not mean it will wheelie out from under you, or that you will rocket away from a stoplight

Re: Technique or engine problem?

Do you ever watch Big Bang Theory on TV? If so, Leonard's mother had a good response for you.....Suck it up sissy pants
No disrespect, I just love that show, and that line!
So far I think the only thing confusing that you've done is to have two threads talking about the same issues, in two different places?
I'm surprised that Mellow has not given you the button, but then again, he probably keeps that just for me
We love you Mellow

Re: Technique or engine problem?

Igofar said:

So far I think the only thing confusing that you've done is to have two threads talking about the same issues, in two different places?
I'm surprised that Mellow has not given you the button, but then again, he probably keeps that just for me
We love you Mellow

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LMFAO!! He will.....as soon as he wakes up.

hehehehehehe

If the clutch is being let out and throttle used smoothly (without extreme throttle movement), whether at 1000rpm , 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000 ... the engine and power train are smoothly loaded. There's no absence of loading as the engine rpm happens to be at 2000 rpm or go through 2000 rpm. Of course, at any of those RPM's the clutch lever action can be too quick (not smooth), or the throttle can be opened too aggressively at too low of RPM, and you'll perhaps get some shudder or rattle from the sudden change in detonation, piston, drivetrain, or clutch change in acceleration as they adjust to a sudden torque change--but that isn't at ~2000 rpm alone. There's no reason why there's a problem at 2000 rpm that isn't there at 1000, 1500, etc.

My bet is that there's either something exterior to the engine/powertrain that is vibrating 'nicely' at ~2000 rpm (like a piece of faring or a bolt loose so a part isn't fastened) OR that the clutch/drivetrain has something going on mechanically.

Best advice is to get another ST1300 rider to swap bikes with you and both of you get a sense of the differences (if any) in each other's bike while doing the same thing that causes the rattle in yours at ~2000 rpm.

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[Tangential point... David, it is inappropriate to start 2 different threads on the same topic. Besides being bad forum etiquette, that is frustrating for those who are trying to follow and help with the issue.]

Re: Technique or engine problem?

When starting off from a stop use a steady throttle and control the speed with the clutch.

Re: Technique or engine problem?

I regret starting two threads.
In truth I kinda regret asking the question at all.


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