Starter valve synce virgin no more!

DavidR8 said:

Respectfully, I have read every line of the manual and no where does it say to calibrate the unit by cross-connecting all hoses to one port at the same time. Did you do this and then note which one was different and then add/subtract the difference for that cylinder when doing the actual adjustment?

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Hi David. Lets start from the beginning. I own a motion pro carb sticks tuner. With this tool the process is much the same except every time you use it you need to join all the hoses to one port with a little manifold they supply and adjust some small screws till all bank read level. Then you carry on with the balancing act same as the carb tune pro I got.
SO..when I got the carb tune pro, I tried the same trick and found that they did not all read level across the board. They were close though so I just went about my the balancing act as usual. My bike had low mileage at the time and it ran great. I fiddled a bit and didn't do much of anything and it still ran great. In MY opinion there should be a way to sync those pots to make them perfect. Then sync the bike to make IT perfect.
I am not saying the carb tune pro is a bad instrument. I like it and will continue to use it as needed. But I won't be trying to get the throttle bodies set to the last Nth of perfect when the instrument isn't that perfect. I should have taken pics and switched hoses from pot to pot to see it I was the hoses or the tubes or what. Memory tells me it was only a cople or 3 graduations off. It was close. Don't remember if it was repeatable either. Sorry for the half baked report.
Maybe me and the guy in the link below are the only 2 to actually check the thing. Not everyone has the 5 way connector from the motion pro tool. People love it because there is no calibration needed. Just saying!
link
http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=85245&page=3

gsforster said:

You guys are lucky on the island - It's like full on winter over her in the interior now so no riding for us....

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Nov 1st we got the white stuff and no more riding. That means it is time for a carb sync.

cdnemsguy said:

Nov 1st we got the white stuff and no more riding. That means it is time for a carb sync.

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We are getting liquid snow today
I was blown away by how the sync transformed the bike. I wanted to ride it all the time before. That urge is even greater!

Thanks Jim,
A person could use the 5-way T to test the tool. Pull the lines from the T, plug all except #1 cylinder, connect the tool hoses to the T and the T to the #1 cylinder. Fire it up and see what happens.
Would that work?

DavidR8 said:

We are getting liquid snow today
I was blown away by how the sync transformed the bike. I wanted to ride it all the time before. That urge is even greater!

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Was your off a lot when you first read the gauges? Mine runs so well but I am still going to do it. I need to wait to get a new gauge or add a section to my 3 way tool.

cdnemsguy said:

Was your off a lot when you first read the gauges? Mine runs so well but I am still going to do it. I need to wait to get a new gauge or add a section to my 3 way tool.

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No one cylinder was way out of line relative to any other. The maximum difference between all cylinders was 2 cmHg: #1 was 18 cmHg and #3 was 20 cmHg.
But what I found interesting was that the #1 cylinder started out at 18 cmHg and when I was done it and all the others were at 22 cmHg. And #1 is the reference cylinder so I didn't touch it.


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DavidR8 said:

Thanks Jim,
A person could use the 5-way T to test the tool. Pull the lines from the T, plug all except #1 cylinder, connect the tool hoses to the T and the T to the #1 cylinder. Fire it up and see what happens.
Would that work?

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Sounds like it would work. Do you really want to know though? You are so happy right now!

JimGregory said:

Sounds like it would work. Do you really want to know though? You are so happy right now!

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Naw, I'm going to leave as-is but the next time I'm going to check


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Having used everything from gauges, motion pro, mercury sticks, and the Morgan unit, I still find the Morgan the quickest and easiest, and most accurate to use when put together and used properly.
The Motion Pro unit, you must calibrate it because it uses fluid, and the quality control is just close. The Morgan unit uses precise measured stainless steel tubes, measured hoses, instructs you to place the dampers at a specific measured spot, etc.
The only issue with the Morgan unit, is it MUST be placed/held perfectly up and down (why I place mine on the handlebars and use the bungie cord to hold it perfectly still) or it will tilt a little causing one of the rod(s), normally #4 to catch or bind a little.
This is what I think happened to yours when you were trying to check the calibration.
There is no need to calibrate the Morgan unit.
Also, when your adjusting your TB's, you must do it in several waves, because one adjustment will change the one next to it etc.
My first pass will get them close, then the second, even closer, THEN, I start fine tuning them up or down as needed.
Before doing this procedure, it helps if the throttle cables are clean/lubed/properly adjusted, and every time you move that 7 mm nut a little, you should blip the throttle and let everything settle down before moving onto the next.
.02

With all this talk about TB sync, I guess it's time to get out my trusted digisync and get one done on the ST. The last time I did this was on the Valkyrie a few months back.

Igofar said:

Having used everything from gauges, motion pro, mercury sticks, and the Morgan unit, I still find the Morgan the quickest and easiest, and most accurate to use when put together and used properly.
The Motion Pro unit, you must calibrate it because it uses fluid, and the quality control is just close. The Morgan unit uses precise measured stainless steel tubes, measured hoses, instructs you to place the dampers at a specific measured spot, etc.
The only issue with the Morgan unit, is it MUST be placed/held perfectly up and down (why I place mine on the handlebars and use the bungie cord to hold it perfectly still) or it will tilt a little causing one of the rod(s), normally #4 to catch or bind a little.
This is what I think happened to yours when you were trying to check the calibration.
There is no need to calibrate the Morgan unit.
Also, when your adjusting your TB's, you must do it in several waves, because one adjustment will change the one next to it etc.
My first pass will get them close, then the second, even closer, THEN, I start fine tuning them up or down as needed.
Before doing this procedure, it helps if the throttle cables are clean/lubed/properly adjusted, and every time you move that 7 mm nut a little, you should blip the throttle and let everything settle down before moving onto the next.
.02

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If you haven't use The Digisync, it doesn't get any easier or any more accurate than this!

Igofar said:

Having used everything from gauges, motion pro, mercury sticks, and the Morgan unit, I still find the Morgan the quickest and easiest, and most accurate to use when put together and used properly.
The Motion Pro unit, you must calibrate it because it uses fluid, and the quality control is just close. The Morgan unit uses precise measured stainless steel tubes, measured hoses, instructs you to place the dampers at a specific measured spot, etc.
The only issue with the Morgan unit, is it MUST be placed/held perfectly up and down (why I place mine on the handlebars and use the bungie cord to hold it perfectly still) or it will tilt a little causing one of the rod(s), normally #4 to catch or bind a little.
This is what I think happened to yours when you were trying to check the calibration.
There is no need to calibrate the Morgan unit.
Also, when your adjusting your TB's, you must do it in several waves, because one adjustment will change the one next to it etc.
My first pass will get them close, then the second, even closer, THEN, I start fine tuning them up or down as needed.
Before doing this procedure, it helps if the throttle cables are clean/lubed/properly adjusted, and every time you move that 7 mm nut a little, you should blip the throttle and let everything settle down before moving onto the next.
.02

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I must try to pull a vacuum with my vacuum pump and see what happens. May need a constant source of vacuum though. Larry trust me I shifted it round etc. They were all bobbing up and down nicely.
Why in the heck don't they assemble the restrictors themselves I wonder.
I bet you haven't put them all on one source. I got 50 cents on it.
As I said and I now repeat, The amount mine was out doesn't mean a hoot in hell. I am quite sure it's within spec for the manufacturer.
So refresh my memory. Is it vacuum vs gravity with those things or vacuum vs gravity with some coil spring thrown in?

With all the things that can and have been made there must be some individual needle-type valve/restrictors that could be put inline with each tube for closer calibration if wanted or need be.

Well I tried to be a bit more scientific about my accusations of mild inaccuracy. I succeeded, and proved that I was WRONG. I used a hand vacuum pump pumping like mad and my carb tune is within about a small graduation and a half. Close enough!
Behold!
[video=youtube;6WfsOxD_2B4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WfsOxD_2B4[/video]

Found this explanation of what the starter valves do. Most interesting to me was the explanation of the #1 reference cylinder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTocWBlhMGs

It also illustrates how the starter valves work through what we used to call the idle circuit and the adjustment really only affects idle and immediate off-idle response. Once the butterflies crack open and begin to let air through the large inlets the starter valves begin to lose effect on mixture or vacuum and eventually have no effect at normal operating rpms.

This is long been a challenge when synching carbs or throttle bodies that have individual adjustments to butterflies which the ST1300 does not allow. If we set the vacuums the same at idle, say 1000 rpm, then the vacuum values will not match up at 3 or 4,000 rpm. If we set them the same at 3000 rpm, then at idle they will not usually be the same so we decide to find a happy medium where the engine idles well and is reasonably in synch at operating rpm. It's more noticeable on twins then fours.

cdnemsguy said:

Nov 1st we got the white stuff and no more riding. That means it is time for a carb sync.

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Good luck finding any carbs to sync on your ST1300. Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Don B said:

Good luck finding any carbs to sync on your ST1300. Sorry, I couldn't resist...

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Nice one. But maybe I was talking about my 1100 or my Yamaha XS 11. But no I wasn't, here ya go...TB sync so your OCD doesn't flair up too much. Problem solved.

Hey DavidR8, looks like you better go back in and Undo all the work you did...cause DDuelin claims that the work you did only affects idle and immediate off-idle response at normal operating RPM's
So this means your improved MPG, Roll on response, and general better performance is all in your head :nuts1:
Now your gonna have to ride that beauty down to visit the OCD Garage and let me buy you Lunch.
Thanks for all the outstanding pictures, text, updates, and information you put in all your posts.
Igofar

DavidR8 said:

Found this explanation of what the starter valves do. Most interesting to me was the explanation of the #1 reference cylinder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTocWBlhMGs

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Thats a great vid thanks for posting ..... seems they are similar in action to pilot screws or a bike version of fords IACs. I did not quite get it because I am used to other bikes needing throttle body syncing.