New Report on Motorcycle fatalities in Ontario Canada

SupraSabre

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The heard is being thinned out is all! :eek:4:

There really is a lot of "fools" showing off any more. And they aren't all "kids" A couple of months back I had to let some 40yr "kid" realize that not all bikers are impressed with their wheelies down a major street! :mad:
 
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The headline says 10% CAUSED by motorcycles....not just motorcycles were involved....and goes on a tantrum about hooliganism...not very neutral in their viewpoint and appear to have an axe to grind..........good luck with new laws to "fix" the "problem"....ff
 

DavidR8

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From the article:
“ One rider was killed in July last year when he collided with a transport truck as a group of motorcyclists travelling as a pack on Highway 401 slowed traffic while performing stunts.â€

I wonder what the number would be if the idiotic behaviour didn't happen.


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I remember when 680 AM radio news started up in Ontario,, must have been about 35 years ago. It was really good,,, no advertising,, decent journalism,, a big departure from established radio news. Big changes over the years,,, gobs of advertising,, lousy journalism,, and increasingly sensationalistic. They have gone from being like CNN,, to being like FOX news. This web article is very brief and misleading,,, and should be called out. It is based on a recently released report,,, which is going to take me a bit to wade through the 66 pages.

The motorcycle swarmings that have happened in Ontario over the past two years will kill motorcycling here. I would happily drive the bulldozer, if one could crush all their bikes. They are a disgrace. Cat'

https://www.scribd.com/document/364956295/Motorcycle-Crashes-in-Ontario#from_embed
 
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DavidR8

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I remember when 680 AM radio news started up in Ontario,, must have been about 35 years ago. It was really good,,, no advertising,, decent journalism,, a big departure from established radio news. Big changes over the years,,, gobs of advertising,, lousy journalism,, and increasingly sensationalistic. They have gone from being like CNN,, to being like FOX news. This web article is very brief and misleading,,, and should be called out. It is based on a recently released report,,, which is going to take me a bit to wade through the 66 pages.

The motorcycle swarmings that have happened in Ontario over the past two years will kill motorcycling here. I would happily drive the bulldozer, if one could crush all their bikes. They are a disgrace. Cat'

https://www.scribd.com/document/364956295/Motorcycle-Crashes-in-Ontario#from_embed
I am both shocked and horrified when I see videos of swarms of bikes surrounding vehicles.
The sense I get is that the riders have a over-inflated sense of entitlement thus any irregular driving by a cager is tantamount to a capital crime.
And they react with a fury that is completely out of line and endangers everyone around them, including their riding companions.

I get the frustration that builds from repeated close-calls with cars. That said, from my personal experience about 25% of my close calls are the result of me not paying enough attention to road position. Being in a blind spot is almost asking for a car to change lanes into me. My response is to not put myself in that position. Sure I could get all p!ssy about the other driver not shoulder checking but if I know from experience that shoulder checks are rare. I want to live so I adjust accordingly.
 

ST Gui

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DavidR8 said:
I am both shocked and horrified when I see videos of swarms of bikes surrounding vehicles.
Just as a footnote to that— here in the Bay Area there's been a few occasions where cars have done similar on freeways stopping traffic while another car or two spins 'donuts' across the lanes. I don't know that it comes to anywhere near the frequency of the motorcycle exploits on YouTube.



DavidR8 said:
My response is to not put myself in that position.
A solid practice but in much traffic not always possible.

Riding in the typical staggered position my Wing buddy got close to being taken out by a car while the driver used a 'mirror check' instead of a shoulder check for a lane change and saw me back a few lengths back (we made 'eye' contact in her mirror).

He was quick to move farther left and the driver saw him in just enough time to get back into her lane. He was even with the car having passed through the blind spot when she made her move. The other aspect of the situation was that from her perspective she was cutting me off while I was under acceleration and about to pass her and she knew it.

There's no simple solution other than to maintain situational awareness. You ride you take your chances.
 

DavidR8

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A solid practice but in much traffic not always possible.
Totally hear that!
I'm reading all of this as we count down the days till we arrive in Palo Alto where we've rented a BMW RT. My partner is at a conf for three days during which time I intend to explore and try to get used to that much traffic.
In all honesty I'm quite nervous. :eek:
 

drrod

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This study, like other, similar studies (eg. the SGIO data out of Saskatchewan) has quite a significant flaw. It does not take into account what type of vehicle caused the accident. ie. does not differentiate if the MC or a 4 wheeled vehicle caused the accident. It only takes into account the stats after the incident occurs and starting when the patient is presented at the hospital (as per the "Methods" ). These are the kinds of studies that are used to significantly raise the insurance rates for motorcycles, especially in jurisdictions where the government owns the insurance like it does in Ontario. This study, along with the recent news stories of holliganism on the freeways, will be the impetus to significantly raise insurance rates for MC's.

It does not take a Rhodes scholar to come to the conclusion that a MCist is more likely to be injured or die in a collision when compared to cage drivers/passengers. A better study would be to assign the deaths/costs to whichever type of vehicle caused the incident. The MC would probably still not be as "good" as a car but the stats would be less slanted.
 
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Hey David,, the Ontario incidents did not generally involve cars/trucks at all. Mostly they were an organised effort by 40 or so sport bike riders to commandeer sections highway,,, stopping and terrorising regular traffic for purposes of stunt driving and hooliganism. I was amazed that the authorities could not corral more of them,, as most arrests came long after the events.

On the other side of the issues covered by this report,, are all the variants of E-bikes,, un-licensed,, un-insured,, using the roadways. I have never seen anyone pedaling one yet !! But accidents involving these must be on the rise,, and making motorcyclists look the worse for it. Cat'
 

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It does not take a Rhodes scholar to come to the conclusion that a MCist is more likely to be injured or die in a collision when compared to cage drivers/passengers.
Similarly I recall some research which stated that more people died in minvans and 14 passenger vans than cars. Which would lead one to think that minivans and 14 passenger vans are unsafe. What the study failed account for was that minivans and 14 passenger vans by definition can carry more people than a car.
I hate methodological gaffs in reaserch! <-- and I hate when I make typos! :)
 
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ST Gui

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DavidR8 said:
In all honesty I'm quite nervous.
Negotiating traffic in any unfamiliar area has its moments but more so in commute traffic. You do get to split lanes here but that's not something I'd recommend.

We just had a spot of rain so I'm hoping you see dry weather.
 

ST Gui

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A better study would be to assign the deaths/costs to whichever type of vehicle caused the incident. The MC would probably still not be as "good" as a car but the stats would be less slanted.
What's Harry Hurt doing these days?
 
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In engineering we have a saying which is germane to this discussion:

- if you torture data long enough, it will confess to darn near anything;

As others have noted, there are some serious problems with this type of study:

- young males are over-represented in motorcycling and they have a poor record of safe conduct in virtually all activities from driving a car to swimming to using household appliances. Why would one expect riding a motorcycle to be any different? The obvious problem is that the consequences of a foul-up are so much more dire when riding a motorcycle.

- the report appears to include e-bikes which are (IMO) dangerous because they are too slow, operated by totally untrained and un-insured riders (in Ontario at least) and they often attempt to mix with both pedestrians and motor vehicles plus, the riders often do not follow even simple traffic rules (like stopping at stop signs) or even wear proper helmets; Not a big surprise that people riding these contraptions are injured or killed given the stupid set of rules and irresponsible conduct surrounding the use of them.

- then of course, there are the already-noted issues of stunting and even basic speeding. So often when you learn the details of a motorcycle crash you find that the rider was doing wheelies, dodging in and out of traffic or doing 130 km/hr in a 60 km/hr zone. Yes, it is tragic when the rider is injured or killed, but is it a surprise?

Anyhow, the fact is that riding a motorcycle IS more dangerous than driving a car (it's just the physics of the situation), but it is also true that many people do both activities for decades without any mishaps - and there are reasons for that which are easily traceable to skill, practice and common sense.
 
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ReSTored

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In engineering we have a saying which is germane to this discussion:

- if you torture data long enough, it will confess to darn near anything;
Another saying is that there are lies, damn lies and statistics. The article has fairly useless info with little or no context.

I came across a ICBC report a while back and it make interesting reading re incidents from 2011 - 2015 in the province of BC. No reference in the report as to incidents per km driven or who was at fault, but ICBC certainly has this info. There is no doubt that rate of injuries and deaths per motorcycle accident is far higher than other vehicles.

http://www.icbc.com/about-icbc/newsroom/Documents/quick-statistics.pdf

Several provinces already impose insurance surcharges on motorcycles and we may see this in some form in Ontario. Many insurance companies refuse to cover SS bikes and premiums for those who do can be huge. With the stunt riding and swarming issues we've seen over the past couple of years I think you'd find relatively few of the general population out there who understand the demographics and types of riders and they would probably not be terribly concerned about broad measures resulting in increased cost for motorcycle insurance or registration.
 
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