2018 Honda Goldwing - Nikasil Plating vs. cylinder sleeves?

SupraSabre

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That I can attest to. They were quick. The car wasnt designed for a v8... you had to undo the the mounts and raise the engine to change the plugs, which is how I came to drive a v8 Monza Spyder. Did a tuneup on one and then test drove it for a couple of hours. Grins from ear to ear the whole time
Well, actually, depending on the exhaust you had, you didn't have to! :)

There was one plug that caused me issues, but I would break the plug loose with my sparkplug socket, which also broke off the insulator (who cares, you were throwing it away anyway) and unscrew it the rest of the way. When replacing them, I would use a rubber hose to start the sparkplug in the hole, then reach through from the top, between the exhaust and the head with an open end wrench and tighten it the rest of the way. Worked just fine! :D

The only car I had more fun with was my 70 Torino GT!
 

wjbertrand

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Thanks for the insight folks.

No doubt if Honda is using this on the Goldwing I am sure they tested this to death.

According to your profile you have an ST1300. Honda went to the liner-less, coated cylinders when the 1300's engine was introduced, so you already own and have been using this technology for however many miles your ST has on it. I've never heard of any kind of block / cylinder problems with the ST. Honda are just now doing the same with the GL. This is a well proven design. They previously used iron liners for the ST1100. My ST1100 used about a quart of oil between 5000 mile changes but my ST1300 uses none at 150,000+ miles. Of course the manufacturer has to get the application process correct and I suspect with Jaguar, they muffed that up as opposed to the concept being a bad idea. After all Jaguar had their own unique experiences with electrics, yet they are conventional. The word Nikasil is a bit like the word "Kleenex" it's become generic when referring to aluminum cylinder coatings. I think there are a number of different ones out there with superior wear and adhesion properties over the original Nikasil coating.

The one disadvantage I can think of is that the cylinder cannot be re-bored if damaged. With street bikes there's hardly a need anymore, these coatings are harder than steel so wear life is really long and so long as you don't go blasting through the desert dust with no air filter you should be good until you're bored of the bike.
 
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They previously used iron liners for the ST1100. My ST1100 used about a quart of oil between 5000 mile changes but my ST1300 uses none at 150,000+ miles.
Hey Jeff, I remember yours was the only ST1100 that had any oil consumption back in the day, I assume the cause is still a mystery. Mine still consumes zero oil at 110k miles, after my round trip to Oregon for the eclipse the oil level was exactly the same as when I left.
 
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Gug

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According to your profile you have an ST1300. Honda went to the liner-less, coated cylinders when the 1300's engine was introduced, so you already own and have been using this technology for however many miles your ST has on it. I've never heard of any kind of block / cylinder problems with the ST. Honda are just now doing the same with the GL. This is a well proven design. They previously used iron liners for the ST1100. My ST1100 used about a quart of oil between 5000 mile changes but my ST1300 uses none at 150,000+ miles. Of course the manufacturer has to get the application process correct and I suspect with Jaguar, they muffed that up as opposed to the concept being a bad idea. After all Jaguar had their own unique experiences with electrics, yet they are conventional. The word Nikasil is a bit like the word "Kleenex" it's become generic when referring to aluminum cylinder coatings. I think there are a number of different ones out there with superior wear and adhesion properties over the original Nikasil coating.

The one disadvantage I can think of is that the cylinder cannot be re-bored if damaged. With street bikes there's hardly a need anymore, these coatings are harder than steel so wear life is really long and so long as you don't go blasting through the desert dust with no air filter you should be good until you're bored of the bike.
Thanks for clearing that up. I did not know my bike had that technology, but then with 126K on it I still do not use any measurable oil in between changes. So it is a tried and true process. I wonder now if F1 uses this technology....hmmmm
 

wjbertrand

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Hey Jeff, I remember yours was the only ST1100 that had any oil consumption back in the day, I assume the cause is still a mystery. Mine still consumes zero oil at 110k miles, after my round trip to Oregon for the eclipse the oil level was exactly the same as when I left.
There were at least two. John Parker's ST1100, also a '93 model, used even more oil than mine. Don't know about the cause, but I didn't notice it until a few years after fitting a K&N filter. At about the same time my '84 Toyota pickup started using oil and had been getting progressively poorer fuel mileage. I'd also put a K&N in it about the same time as the ST as I was fully enjoying the K&N Koolaid at the time. I can't prove anything but I lost my confidence in those filters. If they were the cause of the excess wear, damage was done and switching back to OEM would only slow further wear. The fuel mileage came back gangbusters in the truck after re-fitting an OEM style filter however. I don't know if John also used a K&N in his '93 ST. I think for arid conditions like it is 95% of the time in SoCal, they just let in too much abrasive dust. They may work fine in other climates where there's more rain and vegetation and less dust. I suppose that might account for the opposing views on these products - or the Koolaid...
 
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Don't know about the cause, but I didn't notice it until a few years after fitting a K&N filter....
....They may work fine in other climates where there's more rain and vegetation and less dust.
I put a K&N in mine at about 15k miles when the OEM filter was ready for replacement, and its been in there ever since.
 

wjbertrand

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I put a K&N in mine at about 15k miles when the OEM filter was ready for replacement, and its been in there ever since.
Like I said, it may just be a confidence issue for me, but what empirical data I've been able to research has not helped bolstered my confidence. I hear all of the testimonials, but as a scientist, it's the data and what intuitively makes analytical sense that I put faith in.
 
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SupraSabre

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There were at least two. John Parker's ST1100, also a '93 model, used even more oil than mine. Don't know about the cause, but I didn't notice it until a few years after fitting a K&N filter. At about the same time my '84 Toyota pickup started using oil and had been getting progressively poorer fuel mileage. I'd also put a K&N in it about the same time as the ST as I was fully enjoying the K&N Koolaid at the time. I can't prove anything but I lost my confidence in those filters. If they were the cause of the excess wear, damage was done and switching back to OEM would only slow further wear. The fuel mileage came back gangbusters in the truck after re-fitting an OEM style filter however. I don't know if John also used a K&N in his '93 ST. I think for arid conditions like it is 95% of the time in SoCal, they just let in too much abrasive dust. They may work fine in other climates where there's more rain and vegetation and less dust. I suppose that might account for the opposing views on these products - or the Koolaid...
I put a K&N in mine at about 15k miles when the OEM filter was ready for replacement, and its been in there ever since.
Like I said, it may just be a confidence issue for me, but what empirical data I've been able to research has not helped bolstered my confidence. I hear all of the testimonials, but as a scientist, it's the data and what intuitively makes analytical sense that I put faith in.
I had put a K&N air filter in my 05, which used oil right up to when I sold it to my son @ 174K miles. I took the K&N out and put in an OEM Air Filter just before he rode it up to Oregon. That bike didn't use any oil on that trip! I have since removed the K&Ns from my other bikes and went back to OEM!
 

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Like I said, it may just be a confidence issue for me, but what empirical data I've been able to research has not helped bolstered my confidence. I hear all of the testimonials, but as a scientist, it's the data and what intuitively makes analytical sense that I put faith in.
+1 + I look at it as a cost/benefit type of thing. The OEM air filter is < $40 every two years and would potential saving of a reusable K&N filter offset the risk of engine wear if the filter did not perform properly. Given the overall annual cost of keeping the ST on the road and the cost of potential repairs vs. the < $20 a year for the OEM filter it's a non starter for me and I'll stick with the Honda filter.
 
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I had put a K&N air filter in my 05, which used oil right up to when I sold it to my son @ 174K miles. I took the K&N out and put in an OEM Air Filter just before he rode it up to Oregon. That bike didn't use any oil on that trip! I have since removed the K&Ns from my other bikes and went back to OEM!
I can understand how it is theoretically possible that a substandard air filter could allow more engine wear, and therefore gradually increase oil consumption over time. I can't understand how oil consumption could return to zero just by changing the air filter.

Since we seem to have many reports of extended K&N usage with no oil consumption issues, seems to be a bit more complicated than just the filter alone, doesn't it?
 

SupraSabre

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I can understand how it is theoretically possible that a substandard air filter could allow more engine wear, and therefore gradually increase oil consumption over time. I can't understand how oil consumption could return to zero just by changing the air filter.

Since we seem to have many reports of extended K&N usage with no oil consumption issues, seems to be a bit more complicated than just the filter alone, doesn't it?
I have no "scientific" proof, all I have are results. It wasn't the engine sucking up the oil, it was the air filter allowing oil to be sucked up through the air box! The K&N always caused a bunch of oil in the outskirts of the airbox, pulling the oil from the tube that goes to the leftside valve cover.

When I changed back to the OEM filter, that "large" amount of oil was greatly reduced, not to zero, but close!
 
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I have no "scientific" proof, all I have are results. It wasn't the engine sucking up the oil, it was the oil filter allowing oil to be sucked up through the air box! The K&N always caused a bunch of oil in the outskirts of the airbox, pulling the oil from the tube that goes to the leftside valve cover.

When I changed back to the OEM filter, that "large" amount of oil was greatly reduced, not to zero, but close!
OK, that's completely different then. Was it a fitment issue where something wasn't sealing properly? Also, how much oil are we talking about, seems like even a little in the airbox is going to make a very noticeable mess.
 
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