Advise on High-Viz Clothing, Helmet ect...

DRL have been required on cars in Canada since the late eighties. On every vehicle that I have owned since that time, that did not have automatic lights, the instrument lights did not come on with the DRL's only. This is intentional so that you know that your head lights are not on full power. I don't know if the majority of cars have the same set up or not but a lot must have as none of my cars were special. I never understood how people could drive around at night with only their DRL's on and not know it because they would be looking at a completely dark instrument panel. Many cars now have automatic lights that take care of themselves- solves the problem.

Andrew Shadow said:

the instrument lights did not come on with the DRL's only.

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Good to know. Now maybe one day it'll be done with the headlights too. My 2002 car has auto-on capable headlights with a manual switch. Good thing as 12 years later they stopped working in auto mode. Too bad. I left them on auto full time while they worked.

the Ferret said:

Jazzcat... everyone is free to wear what they want..

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Absolutely, and I do. We have helmet laws in the UK and at the moment that is the only legal requirement but I make the choice to wear other protective gear.

I am perhaps "playing devils advocate" a little here to maybe stimulate a bit more thought and debate. I know things will be different in different parts of the world with regards to legislation and expectations.
I worry that once we all wear something out of our own choice or feeling that we should for our own well being, that compulsion is only a small step away.
I am a cyclist as well as a motorcyclist and these sorts of things are already being aired i.e. compulsory helmets and hi viz. There have been court cases where negligent motorists who have run over cyclists and have effectively got off lightly because the cyclist wasn't wearing hiviz or a helmet. My worry is that that sort of thing could creep into motorcycling.

Again, it seems that it is us, the potential victim, that is having to respond to a lack of culpability rather than making the inattentive driver responsible for poor driving skills.

I suspect that everyone on here is a sensible, experienced rider that has gained an awful lot of road craft over the years and know the risks and how to avoid or ride around them.

Ok I see what you're saying and to tell the truth that wouldn't suprise me, or at least the attempt to make it mandatory in some parts of the US. In my state we had a helmet law and it was challenged and struck down, however on the flip side we gained a mandatory seat belt law for our automobiles. Governments sure like to protect us from ourselves, there's no doubt.

jazzkat said:

There have been court cases where negligent motorists who have run over cyclists and have effectively got off lightly because the cyclist wasn't wearing hiviz

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That sort of mentality is scary and shows an example of the failure of the legal system assuming a conclusion was based on 'hiviz' kit and not merely high-visibility bright/white/reflective clothing. And lawyers. If they ain't for us they agin us.

'I wouldn't have seen him if he'd been wearing yellow-green as required and not just reflective white garb! It's not my fault!' There're a lot of assumptions I'm making but saying hi-viz gear might have made the difference is a scary proposition.

the Ferret said:

Governments sure like to protect us from ourselves, there's no doubt.

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True and to the point where some whine 'Nanny state!' and cry for the return to what Darwin said— 'Some days you eat the bear some days the bear eats you' and 'If you can't out run the guy next to you then you don't deserve to live'.

But it's really tough to deny the crash survivability rate of people wearing helmets and using seat belts just not at the same time. And yeah sadly enough it took a few deaths to get airbags right but they are a big part of surviving as well.

I say get rid of helmets seatbelts and airbags and bring back real metal dashboards. Nobody has to talk about who belongs on the road. They can live it.



Or not.

ST Gui said:

I say get rid of helmets seatbelts and airbags and bring back real metal dashboards

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Don't forget non collapsible steering columns! Nothing like a good impalement of yesteryear!

As a Canadian one of the aspects that should be considered in the debate about hi-viz, DRLs, seatbelts and helmets are the societal costs of healthcare.
Fewer and less severe injuries from MVAs mean that hospitals have more capacity to deal with other health concerns.

For example: if an orthopaedic surgeon is putting someone back together after an MVA that means they can't do a hip replacement surgery.

Here's some data on hip replacement surgery wait times between December 2017 and February 2018 in BC:
50% of cases completed within 21 weeks
90% of cases completed within 52 weeks
(Source: https://swt.hlth.gov.bc.ca/WaitTimesResults.xhtml?rollupProcedure=56&procName=Hip+Replacement&adult=Adult)



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DavidR8 said:

As a Canadian one of the aspects that should be considered in the debate about hi-viz, DRLs, seatbelts and helmets are the societal costs of healthcare.

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Don't have to be a Canadian to consider this. Everyone should think about the costs involved with unnecessary injury, specifically when it comes to areas that don't require helmets.

Bush said:

Don't have to be a Canadian to consider this. Everyone should think about the costs involved with unnecessary injury, specifically when it comes to areas that don't require helmets.

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Agreed, I just don't know enough about the US health care system to comment on the effect on system capacity.

Because Canada has universal health care, the actions of one can have a trickle-down effect to all.
(I'm not turning this into a health care system debate)

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Andrew Shadow said:

I never understood how people could drive around at night with only their DRL's on and not know it because they would be looking at a completely dark instrument panel.

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Many instrument panels are now lit if the car is on, day or night. Just the way some gauges are made. My girls Honda Accord has a glowing speedometer needle, if not lit you would barely be able to see it daytime.

I make the 42mile ride to work at 5~6am every day. It's very rare for me to ride that distance and not see at least one car with DRLs only on when it is very dark.
I thought about putting a moving picture on my phone.. Turn headlights on idiot!! Or something like that.

T_C said:

My girls Honda Accord has a glowing speedometer needle, if not lit you would barely be able to see it daytime.

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Now you have me curious. The speedometer needle might illuminate but do all the rest of the dashboard lights remain off? The reason I ask is because the gear shift indicator illuminates in my truck as soon as you turn the ignition key to the accessory position- the key does not even need to be in the run position. The rest of the dash lights including the radio, heater controls, etc. remain off and dark unless the park lights are switched on. On every car that I have ever owned the lights operated this way. I thought that it was part of the law to make sure that the vehicle operator would have a visual means of knowing whether the exterior lights are on or not.

On my 2003 Accord the dash lights are lit whenever the engine is running. Of course Canadian vehicles have daytime running lights on at the same time, but that doesn't help with the back of the car. And like T_C I see people every day driving without their front and rear running lights on in the dark. I don't know whether to blame this on the fact that newer cars have an automatic setting for their headlights and folks just expect them to be on when it's dark, but for the vehicle operator there's no clue that they don't have their headlights on except that they're kind of dim, which isn't evident when you're driving under street lights.

I gotta be honest... I didn't read any of this thread but when I saw there were 10 pages on Hi-Vis clothing, I realized there are some on this board who are way too intense.

I recently had a loan car, a new Ford fiesta. All the dash lights came on when you got in to the car and the DRL were so bright that I didn't realise that I didn't have my lights on until I went to put main beam on (on an unlit road) and it wouldn't stay on. I felt foolish as, like yourselves, I often see people driving with no lights on and think badly of them. I think the only thing to tell you that your lights are on was a small green light in the display, not very obvious it has to be said.

Whooshka said:

I gotta be honest... I didn't read any of this thread but when I saw there were 10 pages on Hi-Vis clothing, I realized there are some on this board who are way too intense.

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This same topic on the ADV forum would see 50 pages

T_C said:

Many instrument panels are now lit if the car is on, day or night. Just the way some gauges are made. My girls Honda Accord has a glowing speedometer needle, if not lit you would barely be able to see it daytime.

I make the 42mile ride to work at 5~6am every day. It's very rare for me to ride that distance and not see at least one car with DRLs only on when it is very dark.
I thought about putting a moving picture on my phone.. Turn headlights on idiot!! Or something like that.

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Same car, to solve that issue I make the dash light the brightest when the lights are off ( seems normal during day) and have them dimmed down when the lights are on. When its dark out the dash light seen too bright and it reminds me to turn on the lights.