Electrical Issue... NOT

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I just got my bike back from the repair shop where they installed a new water pump. I had taken off all of the tupperware to make their job easier (maybe cheaper?) and to prevent any damage by an impatient mechanic.

Since I've installed several electrical farkles, I had to remake all of the connections. As I finished up, I tested things out. The LED conspicuity lights that I added weren't working right. They were flashing off whenever I hit the turn signals. Uh, oh. I must have crimped a wire somewhere.

I checked all of the connections and even re-did some that I thought could have been done better. No change.

After about an hour, it occurred to me that maybe I needed the bike running because the voltage would be higher. I turned the bike on. Everything looked normal, but there was no neutral light. The back wheel spun free so I knew I was in neutral. Oh no, I must have really screwed something up.

Just to make sure I wasn't totally losing it, I pulled in the clutch and tried hitting the starter button anyway. Not only did nothing happen, but the headlights died.

And that was my "doh!" moment. The battery was dead! I jump started the bike and everything works fine. That's all it was, just a dead battery. I was able to start the bike when I picked it up, but I guess the short ride home wasn't enough to charge it back up. It is a bit curious though that the battery had enough juice to operate the turn signals, the brake lights, the headlight (probably dimly) and all of the dashboard lights, but not the neutral light.

I have it on a trickle charger now. If it takes a full charge, all is well. Worst case scenario is that I might need a new battery.
 

SupraSabre

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I just changed out my waterpump (and clutch - the clutch needed it, the waterpump was just on the verge to start leaking)

Curious, if you don't mind, what did they hit you up for changing out the WP...unless it was under warranty...
 
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A dead battery is rarely completely dead (i.e. 0 voltage). If the voltage drops below a certain point, the starter solenoid will not kick in (click, click) but your lights might work or might be dim. If you were to leave something on long enough to fully drain the battery to zero voltage, it is likely the plates inside one of the cells will shed some sponge lead. This can short out the cell, killing the battery. AGM batteries are more durable, but they are still lead acid and do not like being completely discharged.
 
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ddemair
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Curious, if you don't mind, what did they hit you up for changing out the WP
They charged $380.00 for the water pump including all materials. Their shop rate is $75/hr and they listed it as 2.9 hours. It seems pretty reasonable to me, especially considering I don't have the tools to do it, it would have taken me longer even if I did and worst of all, I would have been working on the ground.
 

SupraSabre

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They charged $380.00 for the water pump including all materials. Their shop rate is $75/hr and they listed it as 2.9 hours. It seems pretty reasonable to me, especially considering I don't have the tools to do it, it would have taken me longer even if I did and worst of all, I would have been working on the ground.
I don't think that's a bad price at all! Of course you had the tupperware off before you took it in, so that saved at least an hour.

With that in mind, I would sure like to know what and how they did on removing the old gasket from the front cover and the engine! :think1:

That alone took me several hours, using gasket remover! :eek:4:
 

ST Gui

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I have it on a trickle charger now. If it takes a full charge, all is well.
Not necessarily. If it's a fairly new battery then you're probably right. But a bad battery can be a fraction of its former capacity and still charge to 100% voltage just not capacity. Just sayin'
 
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ddemair
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a bad battery can be a fraction of its former capacity and still charge to 100% voltage just not capacity
I took it off of the charger and it was 12.63 volts. Much later in the day it was at 12.59. I'll continue to monitor it, but I'm not really sure what I'm looking for.
 

SupraSabre

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I took it off of the charger and it was 12.63 volts. Much later in the day it was at 12.59. I'll continue to monitor it, but I'm not really sure what I'm looking for.
Somewhere's around 14V, sounds like you have a weak battery.
 
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Bob, I think he's quoting the voltage of the battery without the bike running, so 12.6-ish is in the ballpark. But STGui is right about the no-load voltage being misleading, that 12.6 could drop to just a few volts when he hits the starter button. He should try to start the bike now with the battery freshly charged, if it can't turn the starter properly now, then its an easy call to make.
 
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Bob, I think he's quoting the voltage of the battery without the bike running, so 12.6-ish is in the ballpark. But STGui is right about the no-load voltage being misleading, that 12.6 could drop to just a few volts when he hits the starter button. He should try to start the bike now with the battery freshly charged, if it can't turn the starter properly now, then its an easy call to make.
A freshly charged battery that starts a bike does not mean its good, it would be best to test it. Pull it out and take it to a auto parts store, they should have a hand held tester and usually don't charge for testing. Or leave the key on for 5 minutes, if the battery is good it should still easily start. Not a perfect test but it does check the reserve capacity of the battery. On a good battery when cranking the voltage should not go below 10.5.
 
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A freshly charged battery that starts a bike does not mean its good, it would be best to test it.
yeah, I agree with that, I was working the opposite angle. If it can't turn the starter normally right off the charger you know its time to replace it. Since he said "I'll continue to monitor it" and he let the battery go flat once, I was thinking along the lines of don't let it sit there un-ridden for a month and then try to start it. It may have just been low on charge and is OK now.

He also needs to verify his new electrical farkles don't have any parasitic load that is draining the battery when the bike sits.
 

paulcb

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ddemair
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And here's the verdict:

I need a new battery.

I left it off the battery tender for 5 days monitoring the voltage regularly. Today, it was sitting at just about 12.3 which I thought wasn't too bad, but as soon as I tried to start the bike, the starter wouldn't turn the engine over. So it had the voltage, but not the amps. I put it back on the charger for an hour and then I was able to start the bike, but or course I don't trust it and plan on getting a new battery.

By the way, this batter was from Batteryshark and cost $27. I wanted to see if a cheap battery was as good as an expensive one. Apparently not, but I did get 13 months of use out of it so I feel like I got my money's worth. Next time, I'm buying a name brand (probably Yuasa) if only for the peace of mind.
 

T_C

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I left it off the battery tender for 5 days monitoring the voltage regularly. Today, it was sitting at just about 12.3 which I thought wasn't too bad, but as soon as I tried to start the bike, the starter wouldn't turn the engine over. So it had the voltage, but not the amps. I put it back on the charger for an hour and then I was able to start the bike
Classic sign of a broken plate. There is a partial piece of lead still attached so the normal voltage will still be generated and measurable in a very small or no-load situation. Once you try to draw serious power, the lack of the big portion of the lead plate won't be able to generate amperage.
 
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did you ever monitor the current load with the bike off to verify you aren't running the battery down with one of your new electrical farkles?
 
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ddemair
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did you ever monitor the current load with the bike off to verify you aren't running the battery down with one of your new electrical farkles?
Thanks, but the farkles aren't new, just re-connected. I'm going to order a new battery and I'll double check for current flow as I'm disconnecting the old battery, but I'm pretty sure there's no phantom load.
 
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ddemair
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So I ordered a new battery back in February. This time, instead of buying the cheapest $27 Battery Shark battery, I bought a $45 Mighty Max battery which had pretty good reviews.

Now this battery has failed too. 13 months from a $27 battery and 9 months from a $45 battery. If I knew with certainty that a $150 batter would last 5 years, I would buy it, but even the the Yuasa sometimes fails early.

This time I stepped up again to a $65 Scorpion battery. Again, good reviews. I'll see how it lasts and report back.

BTW, If I don't ride for a week or 2 the battery is on a tender in an attached garage so it doesn't live a hard life.
 
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+1 Clutch. I know there will be as many views as postee's but I know of some cases where Optimate battery conditioners have buggered batteries up when left on permanently; this is with regards to winter lay ups.
I personally try to replicate my normal use with the charger, so it has been charged today and won't be charged for maybe two weeks and always only for about 2 hours or so. My battery on the ST11 is old, it says Honda on it, I don't know how old but it's at least 5 years old.
Good luck.
Upt'North.
 
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