Trouble removing seat

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This sounds too low tech for this forum, but I went to remove the seat pushing the seat release lever down, and the seat won't budge. I have only had the bike a year and have had the seat off a couple times with no problem. The last time it was off was probably when I had it in for service a couple months ago. It is the original seat with a Spencer mod, which I am trying to re-mod because whatever was done for previous owner does not work for me.

Could this lever have gotten disconnected? Anyone have this problm?
Terry
 

st1300doug

Never had mine fail in 11 years. I'd say push that side lever hard- all the way down. The only two things I can think of are: 1] The release cable broke/or slipped out of it's fixed position, or 2] The latch lever itself is binding. You may try 'slowly' prying the seat/base up pretty hard. Otherwise.....man, I'm clueless?
 

ToddC

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Try pushing down on seat before pressing lever....

Just an idea...

ToddC
 

st1300doug

Parts 8 (Cable) & 9 (Lock) are $25 if you need new ones. Ron Ayers Parts. Gotta be just slipped cable or the lock is 'crunchy' and not moving the tooth back. Mmmm........?
 

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BakerBoy

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Is the release lever providing any resistance as you pull it? Can you see the cable on the other end of the lever moving?

From memory, there's a thread somewhere in this forum of I *think* a ST1100 where the latch mechanism was loose and wouldn't release the seat. The guy ended up drilling out the latch mechanism using a drill-bit (well-placed from underside of wheel well, after measuring someone else's ST latch position relative to features in the wheel well) to get the latch to pop open. As I recall, the latch mechanism was not secured tightly (screw holding it was loose) and the screw is only accessible with the seat off. As I recall the ST1300 seat latch isn't secured the same way--someone else can verify. However, the idea of drilling the latch (as a last resort) may be needed.

Edit: this thread may be the one I recall: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?118293-ST1100-Broken-Seat-Hook-Latch-fix
 
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ST Gui

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This sounds too low tech for this forum...
Not at all. You'd be surprised at some of the simple basic questions asked (many by me!). You don't know— ask. You have a problem— ask. What helps you may help someone else down the road.


I'd say push that side lever hard- all the way down.
Try pushing down on seat before pressing lever....
I'd try both. And maybe jiggle the seat some while mashing the lever. Cables can stretch and/or break though I don't recall seeing any previous mention.
 

jfheath

John Heath
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The release lever in the grab rail can sometimes catch on something as you push down on it, preventing it from moving all of the way. Try pushing it over to the left or to the right before pressing it down, see if that makes a difference. On mine it catches on the side of the slot in the rear cowl, and I sometimes have to push it over towards the seat before pressing down on it. After that I can get the full travel.

The latch mechanism releases by moving towards the front of the bike, so if you can push the seat down and towards the rear of the bike, that might help to get it past the hoop under the seat.

When you get the seat off, take a look at the hoop - there's a chance that it has get bent a little upwards by either putting it down on the floor, or pushing down hard on the seat to lock it into position, when it was resting on the catch bracket. Or it could have got bent over towards the front of the seat a tad, making it more difficult for the catch to release.
 
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Trussellcma
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Thanks Doug and Todd, but I tried that again with no luck. The lever is going all the way down, I just don't remember if there should be more resistance on the lever. It springs right back up, but there is not much resistance pushing it down all the way. There is a little bump half way down but only if the lever is also pushed away from the bike. But even then it easily goes past that little bump and then continues all the way down easily. Do you usually hear any clunk when the seat lock releases? Or do you feel much resistance as if it is manually opening the catch under the seat? I hear or feel nothing.
Terry
 
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Trussellcma
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Thanks Heath, but still no luck. Your comments make we wonder if the dealer might have forced it or bent it. I am pretty sure this is the only ST these young technicians have ever worked on. This does not feel like it is even trying to unlatch, making me wonder if the cable is even attached.
Terry
 
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Trussellcma
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Very interesting John, and scary. But I wonder where you mean about seeing the other end of the cable. I can't see a thing other than the lever, which moves all the way easily but springs back in the up position. Is there an access point where I can see any of the cable? I removed the saddle bag but could not see the cable from underneath.
Terry
 

jfheath

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If that is the case, it is possible for the outer cable to slip out cable stop of the latch mechanism - if the bolt isn't holding the bracket firmly in place. I seem to remember it is bolted from the underside into the silver cross member of the grab rail casting above the mudguard. In which case, I need to go away and think how you could possibly get this off.

Standard 2 part seat ?

The name's John, by the way ! Heath is my last name.
 

st1300doug

Pretty sure....a 1100 is a bit different than a 1300. I see he has a 1300! Mmmm......
 
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IMG_20180219_203418.jpghere is a pic of what you are interested in. I have looked all around and there doesnt seem to be any way in or under with the seat in place. If you exhaust all your options and are still unable to unlatch it and you are fairly certain it is a cable issue, the only way I can imagine getting in is to drill a small hole from the underside of the fender and "tripping" the catch with a small screwdriver or pick. If you are interested in doing that, measure exactly 3 inches forward from the the left front edge of this "boss" that is extruded into the fender. obviously, this will be a rectangular recess on the underside. If you drill a small hole and reach up with a pick, the lever will be right there and you would move the lever forward toward the front of the bike. IMG_20180219_203451.jpg a Small plug will fill the hole afterward. Only recommending this as a last ditch fix. Good luck

Edit: oh, and keep in mind this is assuming a cable issue. If the latch itself is snookered, this still may not work
 
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It was I, that did the ST1100 mod after having to remove all the back end of the bike to release a stuck seat when the cable popped out. 1" hole drilled under the latch mechanism and filled with a grommet.
Hope it works if I ever need it!
I know the 13 is a different beast, good luck.
Upt'North.
 

jfheath

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Ok I've had a look around and put my original seat back on to see how to get to the cable. Honda seemed to have designed a very good security system there !
With the original rear seat in place, there is no way that t will move backwards, to help release the catch, and pressing down may or may not help. The cable takes a tight S shape approaches the release lever from the rear. I'm going to see if I can get to this by removing the rear light cluster. If I can, it may be possible to slide a probe down its length to push the second loop in front of the catch forward, which should in theory release the catch. But it'll have to wait an hour or so for me to experiment. Got an appointment. More later.

[Edit]No - no way to get to that from behind the light cluster. Once I got the lamp shining into the cowl, it was obvious. [/Edit]
 
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jfheath

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Ok, I have another more serious look at this. Here is a possibility:

It is possible to remove the left hand side panel without removing the seat. Get a hex driver into the hole and lever it up a bit and the sadlle has enough give in it to allow the hex socket head to be slackened. The other two are easy to get at. It might take a bit of careful manoeuvring to get the panel extracted from under the lip of the seat while negotiating the grab handle. I have to admit, I only had the rear part of the seat on when I did this - but it could well be possible.

I've attached a few photos, and I have stuck a piece of white tape just in front of where the rear of the side panel attaches to the rear cowl. (Mine had a crack in it from a while back, and it finally broke off while doing this. It now matches the other side !)

With the seat in place, you can insert a long screwdriver - use a Philips or a rod with a rounded end. A screwdriver blade will dig into the plastic of the rear mudguard. Insert it through the gap and keep it horizontal so that it meets up with the mudguard. There's a moulding obstacle in the way, let the point go to the left side of it to follow the channel, or let it ride over the top of it - but keep the end of the driver firmly on the mudguard. At some point you will hear a sickening metallic sound as if something has broken off - that will be the petrol tank support rod dropping out of its clip. That's OK.

When it is in far enough, you will have hooked the cable. See photo. Now this should give you enough movement to lever the curve of the cable to the left - ie towards the front of the bike. It provides a bit of extra movement in the inner cable, which when combined with pressing the lever, might be enough to release the catch. If the cable stop (green bit where the cable enters the bracket) has dropped out, then this will also pull the inner cable to release the catch.

[edit]I forgot to say - if the green cable stop is still in its correct place, then the cable end is firmly anchored and will not in itself result in the inner cable being pulled - but by moving the shaft of the driver along its length, it changes the shape of the curve of the cable - which can cause the inner cable to withdraw slightly - releasing the catch. So doing this while pressing the release lever will help to provide a little extra movement at the catch. I have tried this and it does provide a little extra movement, and this may be enough. There's a place mid way along the cable run alongside the petrol tank support accessory rod where you can move the cable up and down a couple of inches. This by itself will release the catch without touching the lever. But you need the seat off in order to see that effect ![/edit]

I've tried this action without the seat in place so that I could see what was happening and repeated it with the seat in place, and it is quite straight forward. You can feel that the end of the driver has gone under the cable. In fact if you keep the end of the driver on the plastic of the mudguard, it can't do anything but go under the cable as point where the cable enters the catch bracket is raised away from the top of the mudguard.

The only issue might be in getting the side panel off without doing any damage. Don't forget that if yours is a 2008+ model that the black / grey shroud under the panel (that surrounds the preload adjuster) needs to be unclipped first. Pull out the left (front) and right (rear) side of the grey panel - the lugs are just a push fits into a rubber grommit, so gently levering the panel out releases them quite easily.

PS - The same technique may well be possible from the right hand side of the bike - It is a longer reach, but there is no grab handle in the way to make the removal of the side panel more awkward. I didn't try this as there is not much room on my garage to work on the right hand side !

[edit2]You can tell that I am still thinking about this ! - A variation worth trying - removing the other side panel, and trying to thread a length of strong chord through might give a little extra movement - especially if you could thread it back so that it forms a loop over the cable. It might give a little extra ability to move it around. The cable runs alongside the mudguard towards the rear and then performs a tight 180 degree curve to enter the release lever mechanism from the rear of the bike. The only thing holding it in place is a groove clip moulding in the mudguard, yanking it a bit will release it from the clip and provide more flex in the release cable to play with - I've not tried this, I am just thinking out loud now.[/edit2]

Hope this provides a reasonably sound straw to clutch at. Its the best I can do I'm afraid.
 

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