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Cold idle at 4,000 rpm's! Need help!
- Thread starter 2005RedRider
- Start date
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2005RedRider
Still ridin'
OP
OP
2005RedRider
Still ridin'
Big Red,
I just noticed that you already saw Thread #12. Do you still have the problem? Have you tried anything to solve it? If you do, please let us know what you did.
I'm interested in other possible methods.
Thanks,
Dale
I just noticed that you already saw Thread #12. Do you still have the problem? Have you tried anything to solve it? If you do, please let us know what you did.
I'm interested in other possible methods.
Thanks,
Dale
This thread saved my sanity. A little over a month ago I bought a 2003 ST1300 with 13k miles on it. It didn't appear that there were any problems, but the temp hadn't fallen below 80 down here in MD either. Once I headed up to Maine for vacation a couple weeks ago, I started noticed when the temp at night was below 60 I was getting the 1-2 bar temp dance while moving and that the idle would climb to 4k as the bike warmed up before a ride. A new thermostat fixed the dancing bars and after reading this thread I think I found a better way of clearing the blockage on this particular line though...
You know the little oral syringes that you use to give kids+dogs medicine? ($1.99 at your local drug store)
I filled one of those syringes with coolant, clamped the offending hose on the end of it, applied a clamp at the same location as indicated by Dale, and then forced the coolant back up the line. I then used it to create suction to draw coolant out (rinse and repeat as necessary). I connected the line back in, left Dale's diagnostic clamp attached and fired up the bike to see FLOWING COOLANT!!! Not only do I not have a compressed air system, but I also didn't want to put all that pressure on those lines and risk unseating a hidden hose some place and having to dig for a leak.
I wish I had done this before I flushed the coolant, but I didn't find this thread until after I did my 16k service and the idle didn't drop and I didn't have the energy to flush the coolant a second time.
I couldn't have figured this out without this thread!!!
You know the little oral syringes that you use to give kids+dogs medicine? ($1.99 at your local drug store)
I filled one of those syringes with coolant, clamped the offending hose on the end of it, applied a clamp at the same location as indicated by Dale, and then forced the coolant back up the line. I then used it to create suction to draw coolant out (rinse and repeat as necessary). I connected the line back in, left Dale's diagnostic clamp attached and fired up the bike to see FLOWING COOLANT!!! Not only do I not have a compressed air system, but I also didn't want to put all that pressure on those lines and risk unseating a hidden hose some place and having to dig for a leak.
I wish I had done this before I flushed the coolant, but I didn't find this thread until after I did my 16k service and the idle didn't drop and I didn't have the energy to flush the coolant a second time.
I couldn't have figured this out without this thread!!!
Ok.. I can't get the screws out of the bottom of the air cleaner housing without stripping the heads. The screws seem real tight and my screwdriver is just mauling the heads. Any help?
You need JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) screwdrivers. The phillips style heads on Japanese vehicles are slightly different than the American phillips screwdriver. If you have the right screwdriver they come right out if you haven't already stripped them with the American tool.
LINK
+100 on the JIS screwdrivers! I've removed many airbox snorkel screws without damaging a single one with my JIS screwdriver.
However, since you don't have any right now, try this, place a drop of penetrating oil in each hole and let it sit for a few minutes, then use SPEED not STRENGTH to remove the screws. Place your palm on the end of the screwdriver, and then QUICKLY and SHARPLY, turn the screw driver. Its all about SPEED. If you turn them slowly, you'll just smear and damage the heads.
Also, a light tap with a small hammer (gently) may help.
.02
Thanks for the tip on the Japanese screwdrivers. I Never knew that.
Well I finally got the screws out. I found a stanley screwdriver that fit them decently. However, one of the screws is, well, screwed. I damaged the head pretty good with the first screwdriver. I have to replace it.
So, I cranked the bike up with the airbox removed and let it warm up and the revs proceeded to climb. I turned said screw on the thermal valve thingamajiggy counter clockwise until the revs came down to 1000rpm with 3 bars on the temp guage.
I am letting it cool down tonight and will crank it tomorrow to see how it does.
Well I finally got the screws out. I found a stanley screwdriver that fit them decently. However, one of the screws is, well, screwed. I damaged the head pretty good with the first screwdriver. I have to replace it.
So, I cranked the bike up with the airbox removed and let it warm up and the revs proceeded to climb. I turned said screw on the thermal valve thingamajiggy counter clockwise until the revs came down to 1000rpm with 3 bars on the temp guage.
I am letting it cool down tonight and will crank it tomorrow to see how it does.
You do realize that the service manual instructs you to NOT change or alter the adjustment or move that screw right?
I think I'd follow the service manuals instructions over what some folks have experimented with on forums. Just sayin'.
What I would have done while I was in there, is to remove and replace All the vaccum lines that go to the 5 way T and the map sensor.
I've found these plugged up often.
Let us know what happens.
I think I'd follow the service manuals instructions over what some folks have experimented with on forums. Just sayin'.
What I would have done while I was in there, is to remove and replace All the vaccum lines that go to the 5 way T and the map sensor.
I've found these plugged up often.
Let us know what happens.
Smallville
Scott
You can adjust that screw too far. When the weather warms the bike will not fast idle and will want to stall when ridden before it warms up. I would agree with checking the coolant lines for blockage and then if that checks out, replace wax valve.
First off, three cheers for the member who discovered the plugged coolant line :bow1:
Kudo's to you for researching it enough to figure out what the problem was and correcting it. Too many times folks change and adjust stuff that is factory set and not to be altered in an attempt to find the problem, thus creating new problems. The 3 way plastic Tee that sits behind the radiator on the right side has been known to crack and jam up on these bikes (very common on police motors) so much in fact that spares are kept on site at some of the rodeo events.
I have found these plastic fittings cracked, broken, and clogged up with paint and crud in the past. I have also found them pushed, shoved, and moved them up next to the cylinder head when re-routing wires, adding lights, or working on stuff. I have found the hoses kinked and pinched almost closed, which would cause these problems.
I would urge folks, rather than attempting to adjust a critical component, that the service manual indicates is factory set, and should not be changed, to instead, check these hoses to make sure they are not kinked or clogged, and try and find the real cause of the problem, instead of masking one problem and creating another.
just sayin'
.02
Kudo's to you for researching it enough to figure out what the problem was and correcting it. Too many times folks change and adjust stuff that is factory set and not to be altered in an attempt to find the problem, thus creating new problems. The 3 way plastic Tee that sits behind the radiator on the right side has been known to crack and jam up on these bikes (very common on police motors) so much in fact that spares are kept on site at some of the rodeo events.
I have found these plastic fittings cracked, broken, and clogged up with paint and crud in the past. I have also found them pushed, shoved, and moved them up next to the cylinder head when re-routing wires, adding lights, or working on stuff. I have found the hoses kinked and pinched almost closed, which would cause these problems.
I would urge folks, rather than attempting to adjust a critical component, that the service manual indicates is factory set, and should not be changed, to instead, check these hoses to make sure they are not kinked or clogged, and try and find the real cause of the problem, instead of masking one problem and creating another.
just sayin'
.02
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If not for forums...I'd go insane. Looks like it's my turn for the wax valve issue. I'm going to try the syringe way vs air compressor though. 4,000 rmp almost all day at 54 degree temps. Only went to regular idle after I stopped for coffee and again at lunch. Engine heat must have warmed it up enough..... not 5 miles down the road it was up at 4K again. Riding the brakes and pulling in the clutch till I got home really sucked!!! Glad I have brake pads on hand at the house though. Think I rather a clog at the valve than a faulty one.
NewtonNole
Site Supporter
A 14yo thank you to you sir. It worked.Re: Cold idle at 4,000 rpm's! Problem Solved!
My 2005 ST1300 began a warm-up high idle problem last winter. This means that it would the warm-up high idle would run up to 4,500 rpm's for about 4 to 5 minutes. This is way too much, for way too long! It should have a warm-up high idle of about 2,000 to 2,500 rpm's, for no more than about 1 minute to 1/2 minutes (depending on how cold the ambient temperature is).
I also found, that even after it finally idled down to the normal 1,000 +/- 100 rpm's, I still had a problem. If the ambient air temperature was below about 45F, when I would come to a stop and pull in the clutch, the idle was high again (4,000+ rpm's).
Since I don't trust the STealers, I've been working on the problem for about 1 year now.
This is how the warm-up is supposed to happen:
1. When the ambient temperature falls below whatever solidifies wax, the wax inside the SE Thermal Wax Starter Valve (SETWSV)will solidify and contract.
2. The contraction of the wax will pull in the valve plunger and shaft. As a result, this will open ports on each of the throttle bodies via linkages.
3. When you start the engine, the butterfly vavles in the throttle bodies are closed, so now the opened ports allow air to enter the throttle bodies and mix with the fuel. Without this, the engine would be "choked" and wouldn't start.
4. Once the engine is started, coolant begins to flow through the hoses connected to the base of the SETWSV. As the engine begins to warm-up, the butterfly valves begin to open, and the wax in the SETWSV begins to melt and expand.
5 As the wax expands in the SETWSV, it pushes the valve plunger and shaft outward and starts closing the throttle body ports. (If the wax doesn't expand, the ports will not close and the increased volume of air from the opening butterfly valves and the open ports increases the rpm's excessively.)
THE PROBLEM SOLVING BEGINS:
I started by adjusting the nut on the end of the SE Thermal Wax Starter valve. This reduced the rpm's at warm-up, but then I couldn't achieve the necessary high (2,000 to 2,500 rpm's), dropping to the normal 1,000 +/- 100 rpm's. I adjusted the nut back to it's original position.
I then tested to see if the SETWSV was actually functioning. I applied heat directly to the SETWSV with a heat gun. The valve plunger pushed out. I applied cold with a lot of ice directly to the SETWSV. The valve plunger pulled in. Conclusion: The SETWSV was functioning correctly!
I knew that when the ambient temperature was cold the valve plunger was pulled in, but as the engine warmed up, the plunger didn't not readily push out. So, this meant that there must not be any warm coolant running through the hoses connected to the SETWSV. The wax was only melting as a result of heat rising off of the engine, and as I rode a few miles in the cold, the SETWSV was no longer being exposed to the engine heat. It was exposed to the cold ambient air - causing it to contract and pull in the valve plunger.
Since the warm water for the SETWSV comes from the warm/hot water outlet fittings on the top of the engine, just underneath the throttle bodies, there must be a clog or a kink in the hose. I dreaded disconnecting the throttle bodies and lifting them out. SO I DIDN'T!
When you look at the attached image, called the SYSTEM FLOW PATTERN, you will see that SETWSV hose outputs to a "T" fitting, and then to a fitting on the right side of the radiator, just under the radiator cap.
Before starting the engine, I removed the right-side fairing. Then I removed the radiator cap. I started the engine. You should see flow inside the radiator neck at the fitting mentioned above. Next, I clamped the hose (as shown in the attachment), to isolate the flow from the engine, so that only the flow from the SETWSV would be visible. Guess what? - NO FLOW! Aha! My suspicion is correct! Now what do I do?
Here's what I did:
1. I turned of the engine.
2. I disconnected the hose at the radiator fitting, and connected a brake bleeder suction device to the hose. No matter how much suction I applied, I couldn't get any coolant into the hose. NOW WHAT?!
3. I turned and saw my air compressor, and a crazy thought entered my mind. If I can't suck it out the clog or kink, maybe I can blow it out! I started my compressor and waited until it reach 160 lbs. I put the blower fitting of my compressor into the hose and squeezed the trigger ... what a mess! Coolant shot out of my open radiator - all over me, the bike, and the ceiling of my garage! What and idiot!
4. I reconnected the hose back onto the radiator fitting. With the other hose still clamped. I said a little prayer and started the engine. SUCCESS! I now have flow through the coolant line for the SETWSV!
5. I cleaned my glasses, mopped the bike and the garage floor. Then I removed the clamp from the other coolant line, and reinstalled the radiator cap.
6. I drove to the Honda (car) dealer and bought the pre-mixed blue honda coolant, and refilled the radiator. That's what I have used since I replaced the thermostat about six months ago.
7. With the engine still cold, I started it up. It high idled at about 2,100 rpm's for about 1 to 1/2 minutes and then eventually dropped down to about 1,000 rpm's.
8. I thoroughly cleaned the bike and took it out on the interstate for a 40 mile round trip test. The ambient temperature was 37F. I tried pulling in the clutch several times. It maintained the normal 1,000 rpm low idle!
Unfortunately, I don't know if there was a clog or a kink. I don't know if it will come back. But for now, I'm one happy ST1300 owner!
Dale
W0QNX
Blacksheep Tribal Member
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I clipped a bunch of text, go back and look if you want to read it.Re: Cold idle at 4,000 rpm's! Problem Solved!
3. I turned and saw my air compressor, and a crazy thought entered my mind. If I can't suck it out the clog or kink, maybe I can blow it out! I started my compressor and waited until it reach 160 lbs. I put the blower fitting of my compressor into the hose and squeezed the trigger ... what a mess! Coolant shot out of my open radiator - all over me, the bike, and the ceiling of my garage! What and idiot!
WHAT AN IDIOT AM I..!!!!!!
Ok got your attention. So in the last month my idle speed has been creeping up to sky high. Yesterday it was up to 4000 5 minutes after leaving and 30 minutes later is was still hitting 3,000 plus when stopped. Just like others in the thread I suspected a plugged line but I like to be REAL SURE before I tear into the guts of my bike. I replaced the Tstat earlier this year and vacuum checked all the rubber lines under the carbs so those are fine.
So using this great thread started way back in '07. I was thinking I can do this unclog thing pretty easy, drop the side panel and look see and fix it. But I read the part where 2005redrider took a coolant bath so I didn't want that. I took it down to exposed parts and took the top line of the Tee off, the route from the wax assy.. No flow came out either side, Tee or hose. Well dang I'll crack the cap and look see again. Nothing. So I took the rad cap clear off, still nothing not a drop coming out but yes the rad is full.
Well I do have that fancy brake vacuum pump thing I bought years ago that still comes in handy sometimes. I got it hooked up and pumped it down to 25psi vacuum, NOTHING flowing. Wait ten minutes under vacuum, NOTHING. Well heck I'll stick a hose found in the vacuum kit onto the Tee and route it down to the bucket. That went well, hose fit between the header pipes and was pretty secure. I won't be dumb and get wet. Cranked up the air compressor, it clicks off at 125 and I got the air blower ready. Stuck it on the line to the wax assy. and gave it just a milliminishort as ever blast of 125 psi.
Well crap the rad cap was all forgotten about as that was 20 minutes back. Coolant shot up clear across the bike and landed everywhere including a bunch on the lid of the trunk. Yup I'm an idiot today too. Clean up in ST parking area needed! But yes one shot of 125 psi will clear that blockage right out. I did blow it a bit more after replacing the rad cap and put it all back together minus the side panel.
25 minutes of riding and the bike is back to regular idle speeds. Ya'll be smart out there and install that rad cap before you give it all the psi's!
A syringe used to pull and push fluid is much cleaner and easier to use than compressed air, with a major clean up after wards.
You should also clean the linkage at the idle wax valve rod, where it goes through the plastic barrel assembly, as the threads catch on the edge of the barrel when it gets dirty, and causes the same symptoms.
You should also clean the linkage at the idle wax valve rod, where it goes through the plastic barrel assembly, as the threads catch on the edge of the barrel when it gets dirty, and causes the same symptoms.