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Thread: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

  1. #141
    240Robert ST Gui's Avatar
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    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryS View Post
    I would rather have the wheel in a relaxed position (i.e. where it ends up after bouncing the forks with the left clamp loose) in the forks than in a specified position that causes the forks to bind.
    +1 However we don't know that moving the fork(s) as so instructed causes the forks to bind. It's an assumption that may have merit.

    But I also wonder about the purpose of the newer set-up instructions and what they ultimately accomplish and how they [would?] accomplish it.
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  2. #142

    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    Quote Originally Posted by ST Gui View Post
    But I also wonder about the purpose of the newer set-up instructions and what they ultimately accomplish and how they [would?] accomplish it.
    As I wrote in post 139 my Honda service manual is the version released in 2013 making it five years newer than these 2008 set-up instructions. I would have to think that after five years these amended instructions would have been updated in to the service manual if Honda wanted the front wheel installed using this method. I have not found any set-up instructions newer than this 2008 version. Be curious to see what they state. Anybody have a more recent copy?

    Even if the current (or at least 2013 version) service manual procedure is used there is still the question of should the left fork leg be forced inboard prior to tightening the left axle pinch bolts to achieve the flush dimension or should it be tightened in the relaxed position- but not flush?
    Andrew


  3. #143
    L Plate Rider TerryS's Avatar
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    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    If it was my bike and I was riding it, I would be allowing the left fork to find it's most naturally aligned position and tightening the clamp there. However, the further in the axle sits in the clamp, the less clamping force there is, so I would not suggest (as an extreme example) that if that position was say 5mm in from flush that I would accept that, as that would suggest something was not right e.g. axle spacers incorrect or a bent fork tube. But if all else was correct and the axle ended up 1mm in from flush I'd leave it like that. In my opinion "forcing" the fork leg inboard will increase the stiction and wear rate of the bushings.

  4. #144

    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    I'm with you Terry. I have always done it that way as that is what makes sense to me and I will continue to do so.

  5. #145
    EA6BMECH's Avatar
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    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    So here's my take. Looking at the steps in Step 1, only thing I see here is tightening the left pinch bolts is only to keep the axle from possibly turning when you tighten it. Then you back off the left pinch bolts and "relieve" the left after the right pinch bolts are tightened. So there is no "real process" there that would account for anything. So I think I posted somewhere, where on a gas stop, I put the "warmed up" bike on the center stand, loosened both sets of pinch bolts, made sure the axle was tight, then rotated the axle a few times to see of the forks needed to "find" there "relief" spot.......which nothing moved, so the folks weren't binding any, and re-tightened the the pinch bolts. Still had a pull. Now with that said, I did have the bike loaded heavier on the right side. Weight does make a difference, but I still get the pull with no bags. When all the rain stops, I'll go give it another try.
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  6. #146

    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    Quote Originally Posted by EA6BMECH View Post
    tightening the left pinch bolts is only to keep the axle from possibly turning when you tighten it.
    That can be achieved by tightening the right axle pinch bolts first immediately after tightening the axle bolt as the service manual procedure calls for. The only thing tightening the left axle pinch bolts first achieves, as far as I can see, is to draw the left fork leg towards the right fork leg as the axle bolt is tightened. However, the left axle pinch bolts are then loosened allowing the left fork leg to return to its neutral position which negates this so it all seems pointless to me.

  7. #147
    Catdriver's Avatar
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    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    I wonder if the toe in angle is correct on your right front wheel...🤔😜

  8. #148
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    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    My 2004 did it as well. I installed single rate fork springs, increased preload, raised triple tree and lowered back 1/2 inch by changing the shock. With the bike on the side stand and a level on the rear platform, the level shows the frame is level. Steering head angle is now 26 degrees, increasing to 28 degrees with me on the bike. All necessity to counter steer is gone and tire wear is uniform and the bike is noticeably easy to move. Bottom line, triple tree is too low.

    Update; A simpler answer is to install a fork brace. The base problem stems from the amount of flex the forks are capable of. The brace will helps to stiffen the forks, preventing the twist from occurring.
    Last edited by peterswa; 10-17-2017 at 08:46 AM.

  9. #149
    John Heath jfheath's Avatar
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    Re: ST1300 Pulls to the Right

    I know its a couple of months down the line since the last post, and a few years since the first - but I'd like to add a little.

    The ST1300 front axle installation procedure is different from any bike that I have owned before, in that the entire assembly is clamped firmly against the right hand fork.

    When the axle bolt is tightened, the shoulder - which is about 2 inches from the left hand end of the axle - pulls together: the left hand side collar, the inner race of the left hand bearing, the distance collar, the inner race of the right hand bearing, the right hand side collar. The outer face of the right hand side collar presses firmly against the inner face of the right hand fork.

    For the axle to be properly torqued, according to the original instructions, all of the pinch bolts must be loose - otherwise the axle cannot be drawn across. To prevent the axle from turning when the axle bolt is tightened, I use a very large Hexagon Allen key with a half inch drive to hold the left hand end of the axle. I would guess that instructions may have been changed if it was discovered that axle bolts were not being torqued properly, due to the left hand end of the axle not being held firmly. One solution to this would be to clamp the left hand pinch bolts before tightening the axle bolt. Both forks may then be drawn towards each other slightly - so it would be important to get the axle pushed home firmly by hand before clamping the left hand pinch bolts. As EA6BMECH suggested, I reckon the only reason for tightening the left hand pinch bolts is to stop the axle from rotating when the axle bolt is tightened. You wouldn't want to do this with the right hand pinch bolts - it would stop the axle from clamping the assembly together.

    The position of the left hand fork leg is crucial in order to achieve the right clearance between the disc rotor and the caliper bracket. This has to be at least 0.7mm on both sides. Having the fork leg out of position even by 1mm may well compromise that clearance. So should the fork leg be moved in - yes to achieve the disc rotor clearance. Should it be forced ? I reckon not. It might be worth looking at other issues if force is required.

    ----------------------

    Installation of the bearings may be an issue which is related to this. It matters on which side you install the first bearing. Why ? Well the first bearing to be installed will seat against a shoulder in the hub. The second bearing does not seat against a shoulder. It sits with its inner race snugly against the end of the distance collar, not against the shoulder. The distance collar is slightly too long for that. Put the bearings in in the wrong order, and the wheel will be displaced by a small amount and will be off centre. For the front wheel, the manual says to install the right hand bearing first. (For the rear wheel, it is the left bearing that goes in first.)

    Addendum: I decided to draw a diagram to explain this a little more clearly. I placed it here in a new thread.

    Both bearings should be installed with their centre race firmly against the distance collar. If there is any space at either end of the distance collar, then tightening the axle will pull the bearings together by their inner race - effectively putting a lateral load on the bearing - as the outer shells will not move so easily. If you have freely spinning bearings which seem to become tighter when the wheel is installed, this is likely the reason.

    -------------------

    As I understand it, the bouncing of the forks is to help the axle align itself correctly. It is possible for the axle to twist slightly, which has the effect of pulling one fork leg forward and pushing the other back. Slackening the left pinch bolts and bouncing the forks helps to remove any slight twist. (Personally, I bounce the forks before torqueing the axle with all 4 pinch bolts slack. I then repeat once the axle has been secured on the right.)

    ------------

    Someone in an earlier post mentioned that the left hand side of the front tyre wears more. This is quite possibly due to other factors.
    1) Driving on the right, any road camber will be to the right. Keeping the bike upright puts more of the left hand side of the tyre in contact with the road surface.
    2) You spend more time going round left hand bends than you do going round right hand bends - simply because there is more distance to cover on a left hand bend - assuming that you normally drive on the right - as in the USA).

    (in the UK, I have read that people complain that the right hand side wears down faster).
    Last edited by jfheath; 11-13-2017 at 03:26 AM.

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