pannier latch problems

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Had an incident yesterday morning in SoCal. Riding sedately down a little side road from Ocitillo Wells, the right saddle bag fell off. I had a bungee hook connected to the bag handle, so it didn't go flying into the brush. Here's what I found when I stopped:
Julian pony express 159.jpg

The tension on the bungee just let the bag bounce off the ground, otherwise it would'a slid and rolled who knows where. So far, no harm done.

The chrome latch was unlatched tho the lock was closed. Close inspection showed the tab on the back of the chrome latch was bent toward the centerline of the bike about 45?, allowing it to detach from it's stop and the bag. I dug my locking pliers from the kit and bent it back in so it faces forward.

Just checked the other three latches on both bikes and found them all to bent that way. Here's a pic of STick's right side latch:
saddlebag latch 155 (600 x 400).jpg

I simply squeeeeeeezed the tab with the pliers til it pointed the way I want.

I suggest all youse 1100 owners go check yur latches. Don't wanna lose a bag.
 
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Thanks for the tip George. Good thing you had the bungee. I wonder, is the bungee to minimize the looseness?

I'm also curious to the 'proper angle' of subj latch piece. I just looked at mine and it's prolly close to 45 deg. It doesn't look like it has been bent. I'll take your advice though and tighten it up a little to be on the safe side.
 
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I know, I know!

George was (typically) camping and he used the bag handle to tie off his load:) I do it too...

I checked mine and found one off and one way off. Maybe now I know how pfo sent the bags tumbling down the road way. There is a reason why they are flat black.

<<<<<=====
 
Joined
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Duh! I should have looked at his pic.

I saw somewhere someone suggested attaching a bungee cord to each saddle bag from the inside to keep them from bouncing so much. I find my left saddlebag seems quite loose when it's empty. I also heard to add a spacer to the bumpers to take out some of the slack.
 

sirepair

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Thanks for the tip George! Sorry you had to find out this way. I'm sure it was one of the "What the ****!!" moments!

I'll check mine tonight....
 

0204bit

Earlygo
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I would think a bungee cord hooked on the saddle bag handle and looped across the top of the seat to hold a load would pull the saddle bag up as to unhook it from the rail that it hooks over. Then if the latch is not working properly the bag would be more likely to come off!! The wire bales that fold out from under the seat are designed for bungee cords. I?m going to check my latch anyway just in case. Just a thought!!!!!
 
OP
OP
George
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Thanks for the tip George! Sorry you had to find out this way. I'm sure it was one of the "What the ****!!" moments!

I'll check mine tonight....
No harm, Pat. The bag barely touched the ground. Sure was noisy, tho! :eek:

I use the handle as one of the hook points when carrying a load. I also use the wire bales under the seat and the luggage rack.

The panniers can't come off the rail when they are latched. They have to slide back on the rail (meaning unlatched) to come off the rail.

There is a plastic "notch" on the latch that holds the latch closed when the bag is _off_ the bike. That notch is worn on ReSTored's right side, indicating an ongoing problem.

The U-shaped lock on the back of the pannier that hooks to the latch can bend as well. Had that on STick's left bag several years ago. It let the bag come unlatched but it didn't fly off that time.

Would someone with a lower mile 1100 check the pannier latch and let us know where that tab faces? I could be wrong about this whole thing but I don't think so.
 
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George
Just went out and looked.

At 33K miles on my ST11, I don't see much wear on the plastic notch on either side. Yours look worn by comparison.

Both of the U shaped hooks are fully engaged under the chrome latches, and the tab looks un-bent, (but I was fooled before http://www.box.net/shared/1d215p30bs ) and when closed, near a right angle to the centerline of the bike, or slightly forward by up to 15 degrees. There isn't much play and the hook has to be completely home and in its slot to lock the latch.

I have never used bungees and don't have a lot of miles on bumpy roads. I have several sets of cases and even had one that the hook was bent straight out in a way that made me think it was a different version! It had to be taken off, heated to dull red, and bent back. I am sure it took a heck of a lot of force to cause that much distortion at the hook, though the plastic of the case was fine. I'd conclude there is a lot more hammering going on at that point than we suspect, probably due to the floppy way the cases hang and the leverage it produces. Since I hardly ever take the bags off, I think I will bolt them on through the rear fender - maybe put another hook on the back of the case that can be detached without tools.

Bbob


http://imagemeister.blogspot.com
 
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OP
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George
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Bbob, you bent latch hook is just what STick's left side looked like. I cold-forged it back to a U and it's been okay ever since.
 
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I just got a new (for me) 2002 ST1100 and found the previous owner had bolted the bags to the fender through a rubber bushing. The bolt has a hole in one end with a cotter pin through it so you can still 'unlatch' it without tools. From this discussion, I guess these things fall off, and/or flop around in their natural state.
 

DaveWooster

'95 ST1100ALS and '98 Standard ST1100W
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I would think a bungee cord hooked on the saddle bag handle and looped across the top of the seat to hold a load would pull the saddle bag up as to unhook it from the rail that it hooks over. Then if the latch is not working properly the bag would be more likely to come off!! ... Just a thought!!!!!
Earlygo, your thoughts (quoted above) are correct. If the bag is not latched to the bike, the bag is first pulled rearward but is still riding the rail. But when it gets all the way back, it can be pulled up off the rail. (Once, I found both of my empty bags loose and suspended in mid air by a pair of bungee cords across my seat. Scary but true!)

George is correct that it won't happen if the bag is latched on. But I'm wondering if repeated use of the bag handles as bungee mounts could cause enough stress to bend the latches as George described.

Bottom line: If you use bungees, you may need a rear rack with some holes around the edges to serve as extra bungee mounting points.
 

fperezal

Call me Chico
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One of my latches was doing that too. It is a fact that this could happen to you. Be very careful bending this metal; is not very flexible and if you break it, then you will have to spend some cash for a replacement. Also, one of my hinges in my left saddle is loose and force me to lift the saddle half as I close it or otherwise will not line up properly. The hardware is tight; the hinge is worn, and the part's schematic dont list the hinge itself, but the hinge plate that goes inside... any ideas? BTW, very clever with the bungee thing.:06biker:
 

Ross Smith

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Maybe I can help here...

When I bought my used /99 ST in 2007, the bags and rails were a top priority for me immediately. You all know why. In my opinion they're a very poor design. While my bags have never fallen off they did move outwards far too easily, sometimes alarmingly. It was very clumsy and awkward to get each bag off or on the bike since the latch on the bike interfered in the full motion of the latch itself. The key has to be left IN the latch to release it, as you all know I'm sure.

I modified the entire assembly to fix these shortcomings. Below is a description of what I did. The bike has now been driven over 25000 miles with the changes and no unfortunate incidents have happened. I've been over some pretty rough pavement and railway crossings to boot. It's been across Canada and back as well.

I removed both rails and machined metal spacers to replace the rubber grommets used to mount them to the frame. That reduced outward "swing" to almost nothing, but made the rails more vulnerable to offset torsion breakage since Honda didn't have the foresight to make rear sliding latches to secure the end of the bag to the fender. It is held fairly well by the latch.

To fix the missing rear sliding latch, I took 2" ceramic speaker magnets and clad them in a machined receptacle. The magnets were bolted to the bags and a matching 2" flat fender washer was bolted on the fender. The fender washer bolt is a flush fit when installed. With the magnets clad in steel each bag is held with about 52lb of force when slid over the fender washer. This magnetic "latch" allows for easy mounting of the bag, holds it quite well and is easy to keep clean.

To make the bags easy to remove and to prevent bending the latch's outer cover I modified each latch tumbler so that it will allow the key to be removed AFTER turning it. Just like the latches on the top of the bag itself. Simply file down or remove entirely the endmost slider until it allows the key to be removed after your turn it. You'll need to remember that your bags may not be locked to your bike, however. A manageable security risk for the greatly increased performance, I think.

Ross
 
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Don-STOC237

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Probably a result of repeated abuse on Mexican and Guatemalan roads. I mean, cm'on George, you really don't think you can bang those panniers around like that for hundreds and thousands of miles and not overstress the latches, do you? :D:D
 

Mark

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BTDT.

I think they get bent from dropping the bike because my left bag departed when I was riding in CT last year right after I slipped in the rain and went down on the left side. I used a piece of flat strap (donated by Karen) to hold it for the ride back to AZ.

I found that U bent and used 2 flat pliers to get the shape back.
I also found that I had a hole in the left bag (I believe due to rubbing of the bag on metal while tied) which I used a chunk of ABS pipe and gray ABS cement to repair... from the outside of the bag you can't see a color difference and I just kept adding cement until the surface looks *very* close to the surrounding OEM plastic.
 

Ross Smith

Ross
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Sorry for the delay in getting back. Sirepair wanted to see pix and it's taken me a bit of time to get these things taken. I didn't tear down the entire back end just to show you my little bolt adapters, but I managed to get one of them in a shot behind the pannier covers. In these shots you can see the backside of the bag and detail of the iron-clad magnet. I put each magnet on the pannier instead of the bike so that when the panniers are off the magnets don't pick up things, (like parts of other bikes nearby, nuts, bolts, car doors, etc, :D

I have a small metal working lathe which made these things easy to make. If you don't have one, you'll need to find someone who does or send it out to a machine shop, (usually kinda pricey). You can easily modify the locks with just some simple tools, however.

Hope this helps and I hope I get these attachments uploaded okay...

Ross
 

freeSTyle

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I just got a new (for me) 2002 ST1100 and found the previous owner had bolted the bags to the fender through a rubber bushing. The bolt has a hole in one end with a cotter pin through it so you can still 'unlatch' it without tools. From this discussion, I guess these things fall off, and/or flop around in their natural state.
Actually,its NOT a common problem but it happens.

What you describe sounds like someone has tried to cure the saddlebags from`flopping`. Which some have addressed. The rubber bushing absorbs movement between fender/bag.

Don
 

Rossi

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I use small bungee cords to keep the bags from flapping around, but that magnet idea interests me alot. I'll have to find some magnets now.
 
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