Accident Scene Management

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Dan, very nicely done and informative. One thing, if the helmet does need to be removed, and CPR needs to be done, it needs to be done without extending the neck, and the Jaw-Thrust technique should be used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df72yPYMAXo
 
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Good Stuff for the most part but I have to ask that one thing be modified. calling for help is way too far down the list.

Dial 911 before you even start to approach or help. I would rather see a call to cancel or even get a quick check and refusal if very minor.

It can get hectic, as many have stated and 10 minutes after is not the time to find out that no one has called for help.

Chris
 
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And....Chris knows!

I've done a lot of accident management training for SCUBA....from simple stuff in the classroom to full evacuation exercises, using civil and military evacuation units (fantastic SLAM class in East Texas a few years ago). SLAM = SCUBA lifesaving and accident management...

Calling professionals to the accident site...is one of the things often overlooked/assumed to be done things at a complex site. With cell phone technology....it's become a lot easier to get this call made.....but never assume someone has made that call!! Be sure!
 

Mellow

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Good Stuff for the most part but I have to ask that one thing be modified. calling for help is way too far down the list.

Dial 911 before you even start to approach or help. I would rather see a call to cancel or even get a quick check and refusal if very minor.

It can get hectic, as many have stated and 10 minutes after is not the time to find out that no one has called for help.

Chris
And....Chris knows!

I've done a lot of accident management training for SCUBA....from simple stuff in the classroom to full evacuation exercises, using civil and military evacuation units (fantastic SLAM class in East Texas a few years ago). SLAM = SCUBA lifesaving and accident management...

Calling professionals to the accident site...is one of the things often overlooked/assumed to be done things at a complex site. With cell phone technology....it's become a lot easier to get this call made.....but never assume someone has made that call!! Be sure!
+1 What is the 1st thing an off-duty professional does when the get to a scene? They say 'Call 911'.
 
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Absolutely great information. The only thing i might add..At any accident scene i have ever come across first, car or bike, i always make it a point to shut the igintion off to avoid any electrical sparks around spilled flammable liquids esp. after rollover accidents.
That was in #15

Ok I am going to play bad guy here and say that I don't agree with the intent of this post.
I understand that people want to help, but there are a few things that is not covered in this post. I didn't read word for word so maybe I missed somthing, but here is my take.

First, STAY BACK. A lot of things happen in accidents. Fluids leak, powerlines come down, rubberneckers. The number one thing is to make sure the scene is safe for you to be there. Look before you approach the victim.
If you have no training on first aid or otherwise, don't touch the person unless they are in immidate danger (ie burning). There are several reasons. One if the person has a disease, you don't want to be playing around in their blood. Two without proper training you can do more harm than good. Three if later down the road a lawsuit gets thrown around, your only defence is going to be that you read this article on the internet, not good.
You can evaluate someone well enough while calling for an amublance to give the dispatch info. No need to touch.
The best thing a lay person can do is start the ems system (call 911), and keep the dispatch informed of changing conditions and patient count.
Having been at many accident scenes and being part of a couple, no one has ever tried to sue me...a few have thanked me for saving their life. No, I am not an EMT

Good Stuff for the most part but I have to ask that one thing be modified. calling for help is way too far down the list.

Dial 911 before you even start to approach or help. I would rather see a call to cancel or even get a quick check and refusal if very minor.

It can get hectic, as many have stated and 10 minutes after is not the time to find out that no one has called for help.

Chris
I believe it was up near the top in the Taking Control part. The person In Charge delegated the 911 call to someone else along with traffic management and crowd control.

Definitely great work, but I'll add this note. I have been involved on the witness and assisting side of many accidents. A few vehicle fires and one near drowning (I prevented that from happening) I am usually the one to take control however after I am relieved by the Professionals, I have gone into shock myself. So if you are "involved" in this, don't go off on your own afterwords. The stress of the situation you just went through can be dangerous to you. It is important to decompress and work though the Adrenalin racing through your body.
 

John Anthony

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Larry,

What a great insight in your last paragraph. I hope members really take that advice to heart.

John
 
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I have been involved on the witness and assisting side of many accidents. A few vehicle fires and one near drowning (I prevented that from happening) I am usually the one to take control however after I am relieved by the Professionals, I have gone into shock myself. So if you are "involved" in this, don't go off on your own afterwords. The stress of the situation you just went through can be dangerous to you. It is important to decompress and work though the Adrenalin racing through your body.
+1 - The second to last one that I was at really took a toll on me. If I had been on my bike I know I would not of been able to ride home right away. As it was, I stopped at a friends on the way home and had a beer and relaxed by the pool.
 
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I believe it was up near the top in the Taking Control part. The person In Charge delegated the 911 call to someone else along with traffic management and crowd control.
Its listed after the initial evaluation. Chris being in the profession is just stating to call before you even get there. Its better to be safe then to wait 1 to 2 minutes to assess the situation and then call for help. I know one could argue that you could miss something dangerous to yourself on the phone with the operator, but it does help being able to give information first hand and not memory.
 

BakerBoy

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Wow, great thread! I related to many points here as I was unprepared but became the calming responder in my friend's near-death head-on motorcycle accident deep in the mountains of Colorado. It still gives me shivers and raises my heartrate as I recall details and type this.

For me, the initial shock of disbelief and shouting in my helmet "NO NO NO! That didn't just happen?! NO!" Then reconciling, "Yes it did", as I'm seeing the aftermath of debris settle on the road was a moment I will never forget. The first hardest thing for me wasn't dodging the debris and getting my bike stopped, it was simply being composed enough to remember to put down my bike's sidestand--I was confused and in a rush, the adrenaline having my muscles shaky for action. That first 20 seconds was the challenge for me as I wanted so quickly to get to him, wasn't thinking clearly, but had to pause for a very brief moment and tell myself "it's ok that the vacation is now over", and "you can do this". I decided right then to remain calm, composed, and situational aware, and I took action. His first words to me when I got to him were "I'm sorry John [for upending our vacation], and tell my wife I love her". It was difficult to stay composed at that moment. [Stay composed John, assess, watch for cars coming at us, ... ...]

So many good points in the above, but the one that saved my friend's life was the femural artery point above. He was bleeding fast (his leg was severed) and he had many other internal and flesh wounds.

The other responders slowly trickled in, and were preoccupied with moving little bits of debris off the road...they would not approach me or my injured friend, and were just walking around not sure what to do. I was yelling 'call 911'! Initially, no one had done so! It was minutes later that it became clear we had no cell coverage. Long story short, after getting people posted around the corners of the road, slowing traffic, and after getting a couple people to even approach me and my friend (I demanded that they come over and showed them his femural artery), I got on my bike and rode off to find cell coverage. I knew the risks were high for me at that point, but the 911 call had to get in. It took me 20 minutes to find a landline at a ranger station (still no cell coverage). A SPOT sure would have been nice!

The ambulance was over 40 min away. Lifeflight was in eastern Colorado and also over an hour away (turned into two hours). Once I got back to the scene, fortunately an off-duty KS patrolman and ER nurse, both on vacation, had come upon the scene and had taken over. I decided that my job now was to continue talking to my friend about his family, interests, grandkids, and other things that were good memories and 'reasons to live'. Although there were moments where I thought I had seen him pass, he did live, thank God!

I can also attest to the exhaustion, confusion, and worry that sets in afterwards--and the pesky patrol detaining me for a report. After over 4 hours (!!), I was able to leave the scene and I rode back to the town which my friend [eventually] got airlifted to, right at dusk, and it was a challenge. That challenge was especially poignant when 2 forest rats darted out in front of me--there wasn't much adrenaline/energy left and it was simply good fortune that I didn't hit either one. :hyp1:

Sorry, not meant to hijack the thread, but rather just illustrate how difficult a situation is, and to reinforce how useful the recommendations are in the above posts.
:bow1:

Thanks!
 
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John (bakerboy) I don't think its a hijack at all, but to really so how the above plays out in real life. Having been to three bike accidents: 1-mine 1-my GF and 1-Stranger I can relate to you. My GF dropped hers in the middle of a blind turn. I was in front so by the time I realized she was not there, I had to high tail it back. Arriving on the scene to see a cage driver about to pull her helmet! The stranger was a bike accident on a major Parkway in NY. A group of Sport Bike riders pushing the limits (weaving through HEAVY traffic) when they rattled a cage driver causing an accident. The girl was knocked off her bike, thrown into a Jersey barrier, slid across the road and onto the shoulder and some how not one car ran her over! I pulled ahead of the scene and ran back to find her "friends" about to help her up! Luckily, I was conscious on my accident and took charge while lying flat on my back and directed those rushing to my aid.

I think your insight into what actually happens in a "serious" accident when our "friends" are involved adds a lot of strenght to the thread. Keeping him focused on the reason to live and not let go are very important.
 
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My wife and I met an RN who is trainer in the Accident Scene Management course. It is similar in training to CPR/First Aid.
Our motorcycle training course facility has a very large building and we are going to participate with ASM to conduct a course either in March or April.
The cost is $55, they set the price not us.
Is anyone on the board interested in taking the course?
If so, please contact us 512-695-7233 and we will take your info and let you know when the course will be held and where.
Thanks
It is a great course and very helpful. As MSF says, the more you know the better it gets and knowing how to more specifically help a fellow rider is a great reward.
 

FOG

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Always have a few pairs of gloves, a triangular bandage or two, cpr mask, some tape and 4x4 pads in a zip lock in the tank bag, so I can grab it and go if needed.

And if no cell coverage, I would just press the "911" button on my SPOT tracker!

Learning the basics CAN save a life, possibly your own. I can't imagine feeling lost and helpless in an emergency, it just is not part of my DNA to be passive, and not know what to do.

I will reiterate the main rule PROTECT YOURSELF, do not become part of the accident! That might mean riding your bike back around a curve and parking it sideways in the road where approaching traffic can clearly see it and know something is amiss. And walking back to the scene will give you time to call 911 on the cell.
 
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+1,000 to this thread

We recently had to put a lot of this into play, unfortunately. :(

Raven had read the whole thing and told me many of the main points, and a few days later, we had a friend flip his ST1100 at least once (some witnesses said it went over twice) while on a RTE. It came to rest on his chest.

Our friend has quite a few broken bones and a totaled bike, but he's happily entertaining his mom & sister at his house this week because he was wearing all his gear and because everyone in the group of riders acted quickly and carefully and followed the advice in this article.

You never know when you or someone you care about will need this. Thank you for posting it.

Lycoris
 
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Great post - as a medical professional (x-ray technologist) I know this information is needed out there

- I had a friend go down behind me - and fortunately was not severly hurt but we all need this information to be prepared.
 
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Great information. Let me add; be able to tell the 911 dispatcher the exact location of the accident. That may seem obvious but...
My wife and I were the first to come accross a serious accident involving two motorcyclist in a rural area. I was able to get through to 911 while my wife (trained EMT) tended to the riders. I answered most of the dispatchers questions but had dificulty describing our location. The dispatcher connected me directly to the local firehouse and I decribed a farmhouse in a valley nearby that the Captain was familiar with. They sent a Life Flight Helo before any other responders were able to get there and saved a lot of time. I know now that I can get a GPS loc from my cell but I also take my hand held GPS on rides. I always thought I had a pretty good idea of where I was at all times but realized I wasn't doing a good enough job with the mental route log when I really needed it.
 
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As a Motor Officer, and Collision Analyst, (and formerly a 911 Dispatcher) the amount of "rubberneckers" that slow down to stare as they drive by a collision scene is more worrisome than the scene itself. On multiple occasions, I have had to spend time documenting rear-enders from lookie-loos when I could be spending my time documenting the crash scene itself!. In addition to the great information mentioned above, please consider:
- DO NOT PARK ON/IN THE SCENE! Ride past and walk back! (for safety reasons, AND so you're not contaminating a potential investigation)
- Personal safety first. NO-ONE is looking out for you, so look out for yourself first!
- Provide care for the injured as best you can to the level you are trained and no more than that. Now is NOT THE TIME to be practicing that emergency tracheotomy with a swiss army knife and bic pen that you saw on an episode of Emergency or CHiPs!
- An injured rider will in a good percentage of cases, be on an adrenaline rush and not fully aware of their injuries or the seriousness of their situation, and want to walk around, and chat, and be fixated on their vehicle... do your best to calm them down and relax them. If you can get them lying down and still - that is the best result.
- Ambulance needs to know location, how many victims, and and if the victim is Conscious & Breathing. These are the most important things if you remember nothing else!
- Document/record short lived evidence (tire marks, squeegee marks in the rain, direction of travel, view obstructions, etc..). If you have a camera or a cellphone with a camera, record as much as you can. It may be moved/gone before Emergency Services / Investigators arrive. If you move something - document where it was (this includes if you have to change a gear or turn an ignition off)

Remember, if someone dies, the scene is treated as a vehicular homicide until proven otherwise.

Just my short 2-bits on the subject, I don't want to hijack the post or start a diatribe on it!. thanx for reading!

Great post.

Cheers
 
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