Accident Scene Management

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- DO NOT PARK ON/IN THE SCENE! Ride past and walk back! (for safety reasons, AND so you're not contaminating a potential investigation)

Plus 1 on riding / driving past and walking back to assist. Once I stopped behind a burning vehicle to assist. Once the cops showed up they CLOSED the road and I had to sit for over an hour while they documented the scene. (I know this is minor in the big scheme of things but it would have been nice once the professionals had things under control to be on my way but by stopping behind the scene I was trapped.)
 

DaveyB

A great post and really good information!

As a 911 operator, I would offer the following:

"Location, location, location!" If you call 911 without one of those 3 pieces of information, then all the help in the world isn't going to save those people since the professional assistance you need is running around chasing ghosts in the wrong place. Ask the people around you for the location - some of them may be locals and be able to give an exact location!

Just a quick example, for those of you familiar with Metro Phoenix (if not, avenues are West of Central, streets are East of Central). A lady called in an injury accident at 28th Av/Baseline ... the accident was actually at 28th St/Baseline, some 56 blocks away ... how many emergency vehicles were deployed to a "ghost" accident that could have been helping elsewhere? (Rhetorical question)

Trust me, the 911 operators know what they are doing, we do this every day, often multiple times a day. so every question we ask is for a purpose - please forget CSI and other TV shows, just listen to and answer the questions and we will get the right help right where it is needed much quicker for it!
 

Mellow

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A great post and really good information!

As a 911 operator, I would offer the following:

"Location, location, location!" If you call 911 without one of those 3 pieces of information, then all the help in the world isn't going to save those people since the professional assistance you need is running around chasing ghosts in the wrong place. Ask the people around you for the location - some of them may be locals and be able to give an exact location!

Just a quick example, for those of you familiar with Metro Phoenix (if not, avenues are West of Central, streets are East of Central). A lady called in an injury accident at 28th Av/Baseline ... the accident was actually at 28th St/Baseline, some 56 blocks away ... how many emergency vehicles were deployed to a "ghost" accident that could have been helping elsewhere? (Rhetorical question)

Trust me, the 911 operators know what they are doing, we do this every day, often multiple times a day. so every question we ask is for a purpose - please forget CSI and other TV shows, just listen to and answer the questions and we will get the right help right where it is needed much quicker for it!
Thanks for the info. You are one link in the 'chain of help' and can't be an easy job speaking to people that are in their initial stage of distress. Thank you for what you do.
 

BakerBoy

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Davey, do the phones which have GPS enabled in them, somehow provide you a GPS coordinate during a 911 call? (I really doubt it, but just wondering if by chance the answer is yes)
 

DaveyB

@ Mellow: Thanks, but I do what I do because I can really help others, because I can make a difference! (note: some of the callers may disagree with this, but I don't have the roast time for turkeys nor the weather forecast for New Mexico memorized! - my bad?)

@ Bakerboy: Yes, but it is not GPS information:

Many moons ago, the powers that be decided that giving the Police the power to locate a cell phone would be too much like Big Brother is Watching. The one point that they did concede was that a cell that was used to dial 911 obviously indicated an owner in distress, so this is the ONLY time when the PD are given the coordinates of the cell phone. There are two levels to this, the first being the address of the cell phone tower, which comes across as an address followed by a compass direction for the antenna (N, NE, E, SE, S, etc) and does not give distance. Sometimes, due to weak signals or whatever, this is all the information we get.

The second level is more precise, and gives the triangulation between cell phone towers, so it can display a circle on the map. This can narrow down to a circle that covers a corner of a single house, or it can be several miles in diameter. It is useful in that it helps to identify the actual location of the caller, but it is very unpredictable in size. In addition, the information provided is the initial position of the cell when it first initiated the call - if the caller is mobile, it does not update with the new positions! The technology deployed in GPS activated cell phones hasn't crossed over into the 911 realm, at least not in this neck of the woods.

Due to the vagaries involved with this technology, or rather the inept way in which it has been implemented, we can't trust the information, so once again it comes down to "location, location, location???". If you can't tell us where you are, we are blind. The only thing I know for sure is which cell tower you were using and your rough direction from there, and even then I don't know how far you are from that tower. To add to this, 911 centers are not regional, they are local, so if you dial 911 in Tempe, you get Tempe 911, in Glendale you get Glendale 911. In the event that a 911 center is overloaded with calls, extra calls will be passed to the fallback center (another jurisdiction).

I have taken calls from 911 callers in Tucson that were rerouted to the backup (Phoenix) but their cell tower address is outside the range for my mapping system, so I have no clue where they really are! The bottom line is, don't assume that your cell phone will help us find you, you need to KNOW where you are.

There are apps out there which allow parents to track a child's cell phone via GPS and know where they are to within 3 feet. This information is NOT available to 911 (at least not in this neck of the woods) so please don't count on it! Getting this information made available requires Government intervention, and you can imagine what the "Big Brother" lobby are going to say about that! I'm not going to go there, just saying!

On the bright side, if you have a GPS device that is capable of displaying X/Y coordinates or latitude and longitude, then most mapping systems will permit input of that information, voiced over, to arrive at a location. Just remember your reading glasses !!! :policeST:

Hope that helps!

DaveyB
 

JPrieST

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Davey, great info. Glad you jumped in. You answered a lot of questions I've been curious about for years.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk
 

fiziks

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As an EMS instructor, First Responder, and emergency services volunteer, I would like to add a few thoughts. First and foremost, if you haven't already done so, take a first aid class, First responder, BLS, or whatever it is called by whatever organization you seek instruction from. Most, if not all the information in the OP's first two posts (as well as some additional stuff added by others later) is covered in the first level or two of First Aid, BLS, etc. It will take a few evenings or a weekend of your time. The class may be free or may be covered by your employer if it meets OSHA guidelines. Your employer may even offer a first aid class. There really is no excuse for someone in the industrialized world to not have basic training.

A few years back, one of my students' boyfriends was goofing off the day after class and sliced into his forearm. Realizing that there was too much blood to be stopped by pressure alone, she pinched off the brachial artery as demonstrated in class the night before while waiting for the paramedics to arrive. He had to have emergency surgery and now has a "wicked cool" scar, but she saved his life. I think she was still on a bit of a high when she showed up for the second half of the class the next night.

The Heimlich maneuver is a particularly handy thing to know. If it weren't for the Heimlich maneuver, I'd have two fewer siblings. If you do it in a restaurant to someone who is actually choking, you WILL get a free meal. It works every time.

In regards to the brief discussion on M.A.R.C.H. Someone took issue with parts of that, for example, "you can't have circulation without breathing". Sorry, that is wrong. Have you ever held your breath? Did your heart immediately stop when you did? In fact, circulation often continues for at least a few minutes after breathing stops (particularly when breathing is stopped by an obstruction). In cases of cold water drowning or hypothermia, reduced circulation (as little as two beats per minute) can continue for 45 minutes or more (although this is the exception rather than the rule).

As for good Samaritan laws, most of them have language that indicate as long as you don't attempt something beyond your training or experience. It is usually pretty generalized, and short of attempting an impromptu tracheotomy you are generally covered. You cannot make things worse for someone who is dead or soon-to-be dead.
 
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GREAT INFORMATION HERE!

While riding with my Norton buddies last summer, we had a rider go down (just an error in picking his line) on a tight curve and slammed into a guard rail, shattering his lower leg. There were 15 of us on the ride. We managed the scene, sent a rider back into town/cell signal to call EMS, attended to the rider, gave first aid to stop blood loss from the compiound fracture, and waited for EMS to arrive. Good news is that he was fully geared up, and except for the leg, didn't have a scratch on him, which was a huge help in his treatment in that he didn't have other injuries to be addressed. Bad news is 6 months later he's still recovering but his prognosis is good. Ride safe, and ATGATT!!!
 
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