Quick tip when changing pulling ST1100 rear wheel

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While trying to pull the rear wheel off my '99 ST, I couldn?t seem to get the spline hub to come off with the wheel. It was stuck in the differential. This meant my wheel couldn?t be cleared for removal. I found this tip on another website, added my own twist, and thought I?d pass it along here.

Everyone says to wiggle the tire, pulling it away from the differential. There?s a much easier way, and one that guarantees the spline hub comes off, too. Don?t pull on the wheel. Instead, I used the 27mm wrench (for the rear axle nut) from my STock tool kit and slid the ?handle-end? of the wrench up, about 2 inches, into the slot in the bottom of the differential. Then, lightly pull the bottom of the wrench toward you. This leverage forces the spline hub and wheel off at the same time!

I hope this helps!
 

Mark

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The manual shows using the handle of the tool kit's pliers to pry those apart...
 

John OoSTerhuis

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ST1100 Owners Manual (page 91 in the pdf, page 83 in the actual manual):

http://campaigns.hondampe.com.au/Motorcycles/manuals/ST1100.pdf

Here's another tip (credit: Jason Sprandlin)... when reinstalling the wheel, jack the front end up, or roll the wheel up on scrap wood pieces, install the axel and then slide the wheel and final driven flange splines into the final drive. Then pull the axel and finish the install - spacer, caliper bracket, etc.

BTW, if the final driven flange fingers come out of the damper inserts too easily it may be time to replace the dampers and inserts, or at least reverse the inserts.

Regards, John
 
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1972
During my current 40 amp upgrade, my rear wheel did not separate from the splines, even while using a large screwdriver and some significant force through the slot at the bottom. To keep my upgrade on track, I unbolted the final drive which allowed for the clearance needed to get the wheel out.

I'd like to separate the final drive flange from the differential and re-lube the splines (which I suspect may be the cause of the two being stuck together).

Since the pulling and prying I've already tried have failed, can anyone offer other wisdom to separate these two?
 
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My 1991 has a slot dead center, bottom of the drive unit that will allow the use of a screwdriver to work the drive plate off with the wheel. Found it when refurbishing mine and the drive plate 'fingers' kept snagging the wheel hub. Laying down on the garage floor, examining the rear end, and trying to decide which expletives I hadn't considered yet.
 
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During my current 40 amp upgrade, my rear wheel did not separate from the splines, even while using a large screwdriver and some significant force through the slot at the bottom. To keep my upgrade on track, I unbolted the final drive which allowed for the clearance needed to get the wheel out.

I'd like to separate the final drive flange from the differential and re-lube the splines (which I suspect may be the cause of the two being stuck together).

Since the pulling and prying I've already tried have failed, can anyone offer other wisdom to separate these two?
Try using a rubber mallet (gently) back and forth against opposite sides of the spider "legs". That might wiggle it off. Other than John O's suggestion that worn damper inserts can cause the spider to remain stuck in the final drive, I'd say lack of sufficient lube (Moly) during the last R & R can also cause sticking, possibly rusty, gear teeth.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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I'm going to assume that after you removed the final drive with the wheel attached, that the wheel is now separated from the Final Drive and that the Driven Flange remains "stuck" in the Final Drive.

If so, striking the Driven Flange "fingers" is worth trying. I'd try a heavy dose of penetrant overnight.. Liquid Wrench.. PB Blaster, etc.

I'm a little concerned by your description. Please let us know what the splines look like after you finally get them separated. Fingers crossed...

John
 
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Thanks, guys. Apparently the o-ring was holding it in as I was able to wiggle the flange on the spline yet it wouldn't let loose. Spraying a little liquid wrench in there freed it up pretty quickly. I've never been in there in all of the 53k miles but I'm assuming with each tire change at the local shop they'd have R&R'd it many times.

As you can see in the pic there's no sign of recent lube on the splines although the o-ring looks to be somewhat intact. What can/should I safely use to clean this up before re-greasing and putting it back in?

20170426_202623.jpg

Oh yeah, 5 fingers on that flange.
 
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ST Gui

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I'm assuming with each tire change at the local shop they'd have R&R'd it many times.
With the many many horror stories I've heard about dealers' supposed servicing I'd be worried about assuming much of anything.

Moly'ing the splines can't be unique to STs so it should be safe to assume they'd lube accordingly. But you just can't.
 
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Thanks, guys. Apparently the o-ring was holding it in as I was able to wiggle the flange on the spline yet it wouldn't let loose. Spraying a little liquid wrench in there freed it up pretty quickly. I've never been in there in all of the 53k miles but I'm assuming with each tire change at the local shop they'd have R&R'd it many times.

As you can see in the pic there's no sign of recent lube on the splines although the o-ring looks to be somewhat intact. What can/should I safely use to clean this up before re-greasing and putting it back in?

20170426_202623.jpg

Oh yeah, 5 fingers on that flange.
I cleaned mine up with spray brake cleaner and several old tooth brushes. Replace all the o-rings and lube the splines with Honda recommended moly paste.
 

John OoSTerhuis

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As best I can tell from your picture, there's some worrisome spline wear there. Inadequate, improper, or no lube in a critical area.

We've seen this many, many times over the years. Tire R&Rs performed by the lowest grease monkey in the shop. Please identify the shop that failed to properly service your ST.

I trust my local Honda dealer to work on my ST1100 as at least one of the long-time techs knows STs; however, I do all of the work on mine. Except for tires, but I remove the wheels and carry them to their shop for tire changes and do the reinstall with the proper lubrication myself. The few times I've had a tire R&R while on a trip I insured I was in the shop to observe, and instruct/direct. And had to provide the moly paste from my carry-along kit and ended up applying it myself.

Clean up the splines, apply the moly paste, replace the three o-rings, and carefully follow the realignment procedure when reinstalling the Final Drive to the Swingarm. Hopefully you'll arrest the spline wear so it doesn't progress further.

John :STOC: Ten Fifty-Eight
 
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John, you're probably right. I believe I've been getting the lowest totem pole monkey. I've been taking my ST1100 to Maxim Honda in Allen, TX for all tire changes for almost 20 years now, never pulling the rear wheel myself. I wonder if they're not as 'thorough' with mine since I always buy my tires online (vs. from them, to save ~$20-30 per tire) and have them swap them?

I spent about an hour before retiring last night (after posting that pic) using a fine pick to scrape out the dried lubricant/filings from both sides of the spline and the o-ring chases and they look a whole lot better now, but as you suspected they're showing some wear.

I'll follow your advice and clean and lube 'em up real good and assemble/align everything properly. I hadn't noticed any adverse affects that could be attributed to the worn splines so hopefully that'll continue to be the case after I button 'er all up.

From now on I'll be taking my wheels off to get the tires changed and ensuring proper installation and lubrication. I'll probably swap in new dampers with the next rear tire change, too.

Thanks for all the help and advice, guys.
 

Slydynbye

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Clean up the splines, apply the moly paste, replace the three o-rings, and carefully follow the realignment procedure when reinstalling the Final Drive to the Swingarm. Hopefully you'll arrest the spline wear so it doesn't progress further.
John, Where would I find this realignment procedure? Is this for when I am inserting the splined piece into the final drive? I looked in the Honda manual and the Clymers manual and can't find what you are referencing.
 

Mellow

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John, you're probably right. I believe I've been getting the lowest totem pole monkey. I've been taking my ST1100 to Maxim Honda in Allen, TX for all tire changes for almost 20 years now, never pulling the rear wheel myself. I wonder if they're not as 'thorough' with mine since I always buy my tires online (vs. from them, to save ~$20-30 per tire) and have them swap them?

I spent about an hour before retiring last night (after posting that pic) using a fine pick to scrape out the dried lubricant/filings from both sides of the spline and the o-ring chases and they look a whole lot better now, but as you suspected they're showing some wear.

I'll follow your advice and clean and lube 'em up real good and assemble/align everything properly. I hadn't noticed any adverse affects that could be attributed to the worn splines so hopefully that'll continue to be the case after I button 'er all up.

From now on I'll be taking my wheels off to get the tires changed and ensuring proper installation and lubrication. I'll probably swap in new dampers with the next rear tire change, too.

Thanks for all the help and advice, guys.
How much do they charge you? If you feel like riding over to Carrollton, I'll change the tires and you get the additional value of all my wisdom... hmmm.. kinda makes me wonder why no one has come over in a while...
 

John OoSTerhuis

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Phil, is the thrust washer missing? Been known to happen that it's been left in the solvent bath, wherever...

Follow the special Final Drive reinstall procedure to insure the best alignment possible/minimize further spline wear. Applying the spec'd torque to all four Final Drive nuts (after fully installing the wheel per the instructions) can be difficult but with the fuel tank out and the right socket extensions, it can be done. Important, IMNSHO

If you replace the dampers, especially if they just fall out, I'd recommend also replacing the aluminum inserts.

John
 
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John OoSTerhuis

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John, Where would I find this realignment procedure? Is this for when I am inserting the splined piece into the final drive? I looked in the Honda manual and the Clymers manual and can't find what you are referencing.
It should be in the STOC alternator upgrade tool kit's documentation that Phil has, but click on the link to Mark Frost's swingarm tips partway down this page:
40 Amp Alternator Upgrade - A Two Part Series ! Now With VIDEO !! *
http://www.st-riders.net/index.php?topic=942

John
 
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ST1100 Owners Manual (page 91 in the pdf, page 83 in the actual manual):

http://campaigns.hondampe.com.au/Motorcycles/manuals/ST1100.pdf

Here's another tip (credit: Jason Sprandlin)... when reinstalling the wheel, jack the front end up, or roll the wheel up on scrap wood pieces, install the axel and then slide the wheel and final driven flange splines into the final drive. Then pull the axel and finish the install - spacer, caliper bracket, etc.

BTW, if the final driven flange fingers come out of the damper inserts too easily it may be time to replace the dampers and inserts, or at least reverse the inserts.

Regards, John
This was a good tip, for a stubborn wheel that didn't want to seat into the final drive. One more problem I had was keeping the wheel in place when withdrawing the axle; I found that a tie-down strap wrapped around the tire and final drive case was enough to hold it in.

Thanks, John and Jason
Alan
 
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