Replace ST1300 fork seals

I have a leaky left fork seal, so just gonna replace seals on both.
I am currently at 24k miles and I am wondering if I need to replace anything besides the Fork Seal Set:
(Ron Ayers fiche) - http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/1/Make/Honda/YearID/46/Year/2005/ModelID/5520/Model/ST1300/GroupID/219488/Group/FRONT_FORK

#19 51490-MCA-003 SEAL SET, FR. FORK

This is my daily rider so I would prefer to spend a few extra bucks and pick up anything I will probably need rather than having to wait another week to get additional parts.

What fork oil do you recommend? If it matters, I live in Houston suburbs and do a mix of highway & side street driving.

How big a job is this? From looking at the manual and the bike, I get the impression that all I am going to need to do is remove the front wheel and fender, the loosen the fork clamps and pull them down and out... is it really just that simple?

Re: Replace fork seals

You will also need to remove some of the brake hardware but it isn't difficult at all. The directions in the manual are pretty good.

There are a few threads on the site that cover the use of various fork oils. Use the site search feature and you can find them. Like all things oil related on this site, you will find lots of opinions. Keep in mind, many of those threads also include modifications to the forks so it might not be an apples to apples comparison for you.

I had my left seal go out a year and one half ago. Only replaced it and not the right hand side. Got another year out of the right hand side one before that one started to weep. Some people will argue that you should change them out at the same time. My philosophy is to only fix those things that are actually broken but then again I do all of my own work too.

What are you going to use to drive in the seal? There is a post here on how to use an inexpensive PVC joint to drive in the seal. Works like a charm.

Keep us posted. Have fun.

Re: Replace fork seals

First time I did it to a bike I found it wasn't hard too.
You have to figure out how you're going to get all the old fork oil out though... pumping and draining does it.

Torque wrench and allen wrench in a socket to set the torques to the right values. Check this thread out for ideas.

I think Honda's OEM fork oil works out to 7.5 when you check oil weights you can buy a quart of 5 and 10 and mix them to get that; but, I think the Honda spec is too light and would go with straight 10. Brand of fork oil... oh boy an oil thead! Ready? Begin!

P.S.
I forgot about the ABS pipe to drive the seals... worked well for me too.

Re: Replace fork seals

Here is the thread on the fork seal driver...linky

Re: Replace fork seals

To get to the 6mm Allen bolt that hold the cartridge assembly in the bottom of the fork tube you'll need a long wrench to reach it. You can pick up an inexpensive set at Harbor Freight. You'll need a way to measure the fluid level within the fork tube. Motion Pro and other make a siphon tool that is calibrated and makes it really easy but something as simple as a piece of tubing marked at the proper length and attached to a turkey baster would work.

With regard to replacing one or both seals here are my thoughts. Fork fluid like oil will wear out and gets dirty. If you replace only one side with new seals and oil then the balance between the two sides could be off slightly. You may or may not notice it but it's sort of like replacing a single shock on your car, something that is not normally done unless economics are involved. Shocks are usually replaced as a pair, front or rear or all 4. Forks are your front shocks so why freshen one without doing the other.

Take your time, make sure you've assembled ALL the parts and you should be good to go. When setting the forks back into the triple trees I use a single edge razor blade to ensure the height is correct. Raise the fork slightly above the top clamp and place the edge of the blade into the crack where the cap meets the tube. If you lower it slowly the blade will stop it when it is level with the top edge of the upper clamp. Snug up the top bolt to hold it in place. Do this on both sides and torque the bolts and I've never had a problem with getting the axle to slide into place.

Re: Replace fork seals

Byron said:

With regard to replacing one or both seals here are my thoughts. Fork fluid like oil will wear out and gets dirty. If you replace only one side with new seals and oil then the balance between the two sides could be off slightly. You may or may not notice it but it's sort of like replacing a single shock on your car, something that is not normally done unless economics are involved. Shocks are usually replaced as a pair, front or rear or all 4. Forks are your front shocks so why freshen one without doing the other.

Click to expand...

I agree with changing the fluid on both shocks at the same time. I just don't think you need to change the seal on the side that doesn't leak if you don't need to. As George would say... save yur money for tars and gas!

Re: Replace fork seals

Excellent. Several good tips here.

I had read several pages about oil, but as you said most where about modified forks. I will do a bit more reading on the subject.

I had planned on doing both Forks at the same time, mostly because I am too lazy to want to have to do it again any time soon. Being that this is my daily rider I don't get much joy working on it, too much stress, I can't just take my time on it, I have exactly 2 days to get a job done and ridiculously the second day the freaking parts place is closed. Not that they ever have the part on hand anyways... sorry for the impromptu rant.

I have not read over the manual procedure thoroughly yet, I usually look at it to get an idea of what's going on and then hop online to look for a more thorough walk. Generally I find that the manual has a lot instructions that have more to do with artificially increasing shop hours and less to do with getting the job done the best way. But it looks like I will need to set down with it tonight.

Having said that I am assuming that I need to measure the extracted oil to know how much to put back in? Thats odd, I assumed there would simply be a measured amount that was standard. I do have air compressor siphon kit I have used for brakes and radiator fluid. It is calibrated and i assume it will work just as well for fork fluid.

Re: Replace fork seals

topochicho said:

Excellent. Several good tips here.

I had read several pages about oil, but as you said most where about modified forks. I will do a bit more reading on the subject.

I had planned on doing both Forks at the same time, mostly because I am too lazy to want to have to do it again any time soon. Being that this is my daily rider I don't get much joy working on it, too much stress, I can't just take my time on it, I have exactly 2 days to get a job done and ridiculously the second day the freaking parts place is closed. Not that they ever have the part on hand anyways... sorry for the impromptu rant.

I have not read over the manual procedure thoroughly yet, I usually look at it to get an idea of what's going on and then hop online to look for a more thorough walk. Generally I find that the manual has a lot instructions that have more to do with artificially increasing shop hours and less to do with getting the job done the best way. But it looks like I will need to set down with it tonight
Having said that I am assuming that I need to measure the extracted oil to know how much to put back in? Thats odd, I assumed there would simply be a measured amount that was standard. I do have air compressor siphon kit I have used for brakes and radiator fluid. It is calibrated and i assume it will work just as well for fork fluid.

Click to expand...

I would replace bushings!!! your that far!!and cheap parts....

009 51414-MCH-003 BUSH, GUIDE
010 51415-MCS-G01 BUSH, SLIDER
(If teflon worn to copper= replace...I just replace anyways!!!)
fill Level (per 03/04Manual -page 15-30)...638cm (should say ML!!!!)+/- 2.5 ML....

after forks mounted (springs out-dampners in) overfill slighly!!! (then pump dampners 20 times or so to get air out!! pump forks up/down too!use your siphon kit to suck out overfill!!
Measure 62MM/2.4 In. from top of fork tube...(WITHE FORKS UP - COMPRESSED!!!)
....here is summary of how I did it ...posted on another thread! it took a day...including all fender ,wheel, caliper,and anti dive removal off forks on my wing...but very simular setup!.....wasnt hard!!! just have to be carefull not to scratch sliders!!!good luck!

"looks exactly like the Wing!!!
But here's how I did it!....leave forks on!!! unscrew bolt on bottom of forks (this was a PAIN to get off from the factory! had to heat up a little,,,)and drain oil !losen top pinch bolts . Unscrew
cap,with presure on it,as it will be under pressure from spring! then just pull up dampner rod and put a wrench on on not on top of rod ... take out spacer spring and dampner....Take dust caps off...the retainer ring...pull hard...like 3 times on outer tube...it will seperate from innner tube (slider). Now loosen lower pich bolts and outer tubes come off bike
clean all parts , put new bushing and seals on put retainer ring back on znd dust cap! fork back on bike!...fill with oil ...pump dampber 20 times or so to fill with oil.get air out!(also pump fork up/down)check level! put spring/washer/spacer in jack fork up or have someone hold it pull dampner up and put nut on and screw cap on! lower fork,and tighten everything down!
make sure you apply pressure to cap so you dont strip the threads! Tighten upper pinch bolts DONE! (hope I didnt give you too much info!)"

I HAVE NOT DONE ST FORKS!!! ONLY ON THE WING!!!
BUT THE PARTS PAGE LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THE WING!!!...

Re: Replace fork seals

forgitaboutut said:

I would replace bushings!!! your that far!!and cheap parts....

009 51414-MCH-003 BUSH, GUIDE
010 51415-MCS-G01 BUSH, SLIDER

Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother, mine were still good after 73K miles... save yur money for tars and gas. :

Re: Replace fork seals

Scooter said:

I wouldn't bother, mine were still good after 73K miles... save yur money for tars and gas. :

Click to expand...

but there like $3 bucks ea!....:crackup
easy to replace...and your right there!
To each his own..I guess!
(If you do decied to...I used the old ones....slip over top of new one...and pound in place with piece of wood/hammer...(same with seals...)

Re: Replace fork seals

forgitaboutut said:

but there like $3 bucks ea!....:crackup

Click to expand...

Bushings are $9.47 each
Sliders are $4.93 each
Ya need two of each so it does start to add up.

Re: Replace fork seals

My 2 cents, I wouldn,t say you need to replace the bushings yet ! Just the seals and the oil ! I think the manual gives you a specific amount of oil required in each fork . I have used ATF in some of the forks I have done ,it is about a 10 wt oil anyway . Thats what some of the manufactures use to list as replacement fork oil ,including Honda ! Good luck and ride safe !

MIKE

Re: Replace fork seals

Scooter said:

Bushings are $9.47 each
Sliders are $4.93 each
Ya need two of each so it does start to add up.

Click to expand...

dayyumm!!! Mine were 2.69!
6.52 for ST...for pretty close to the same thing....*****!
ORDER PART # HO-6703094 (51414-MCH-003) & ORDER PART # HO-6703102 (51415-MCH-003) 5.82...
http://www.directlineparts.com/byBrand.asp?brd=Honda+OEM+Parts&str=10

Re: Replace fork seals

forgitaboutut said:

I would replace bushings!!! your that far!!and cheap parts....
<CUT>
....here is summary of how I did it ...posted on another thread! it took a day...including all fender ,wheel, caliper,and anti dive removal off forks on my wing...but very simular setup!.....wasnt hard!!! just have to be carefull not to scratch sliders!!!good luck!

"looks exactly like the Wing!!!
But here's how I did it!....leave forks on!!! unscrew bolt on bottom of forks (this was a PAIN to get off from the factory! had to heat up a little,,,)and drain oil !losen top pinch bolts . Unscrew
cap,with presure on it,as it will be under pressure from spring! then just pull up dampner rod and put a wrench on on not on top of rod ... take out spacer spring and dampner....Take dust caps off...the retainer ring...pull hard...like 3 times on outer tube...it will seperate from innner tube (slider). Now loosen lower pich bolts and outer tubes come off bike
clean all parts , put new bushing and seals on put retainer ring back on znd dust cap! fork back on bike!...fill with oil ...pump dampber 20 times or so to fill with oil.get air out!(also pump fork up/down)check level! put spring/washer/spacer in jack fork up or have someone hold it pull dampner up and put nut on and screw cap on! lower fork,and tighten everything down!
make sure you apply pressure to cap so you dont strip the threads! Tighten upper pinch bolts DONE! (hope I didnt give you too much info!)"

I HAVE NOT DONE ST FORKS!!! ONLY ON THE WING!!!
BUT THE PARTS PAGE LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THE WING!!!...

Click to expand...

Good idea, I will check to see if dealer has the parts in stock, like I said before, I prefer to spend a few extra bucks on this particular bike now rather than having to wait for parts or redo it later.

Anything that will shorten the job is welcome, I will let you know if this works for me.

Re: Replace fork seals

If you care to, read this: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40828. I would recommend Red Line synthetic. Mix of light and medium.

Not sure if you have Sonic Springs in yet, but that is one other recommendation. If you have it all apart you may as well make the change. This is one of the best value changes you can make. Helps with overall handling and safety. People seem to ignore suspension for some reason, but in this case well worth the $80 or so.

Re: Replace fork seals

If you are not modifying or changing anything why not use Honda SS-8 fork oil to when reassembling? That's what comes in it and since there is so much variation in fork oils between brands anything but Honda's 10 wt OEM oil is likely to change the fork action and probably not for the better. The first oil change I used Bel Ray 10 wt and the forks were too harsh until I went back to SS-8.

I recently took my forks apart at 73,600 miles with new bushings and seals in hand. I did not have seeping or leaking but I wanted to replace seals before that happened. I found the original bushings had very little wear - they could have gone another 50 to 75k miles easy but then I change my fork oil about every 20,000 miles. I changed the bushings and seals just because I had them and you have to take it all apart to check them anyway.

You have it correct that the forks are easy to drop out of the clamps and easy to disassemble to replace the seals. You will need a vice, I did anyway, to hold the fork leg from rotating when removing the bolt that holds the damping cartridge in place. I can pull and replace the fork legs in a couple hours but I let the forks drain overnight if just replacing the oil. I made my own oil level measuring tool from a syringe and a piece of tubing cut so the syringe removed oil above 62 mm from the top of the tube.

Pics: inserting lock bolt with thread lock, fork oil syringe, in use.

The whole thread: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80871

Re: Replace fork seals

Loosen that damping rod bolt *before* you take the forks off the bike... you'll be able to skip the vice work...

Syringe is a good idea, thanks... I have access to lots of them now!

Re: Replace fork seals

OK, so did the seal replacement weekend before last. Went well except for fork caps. Bent tool I have used in past to do front axle. Went to sears and found a 17mm allen wrench, cut off 1.5 inches with dremmel, stuck in a 17mm socket and broke loose with impact wrench... unfortunately in order to do this I had to leave the forks in the clamps, which meant taking off bars and riser to get to cap.
Added a few hours to the job, but nothing too complicated.

Problem is leak is back and now its both forks. Looked pretty good all week, but rode the bike to Austin and back (about 600 miles over 3 days) and there is oil on both fork tubes with some oil on the brake calipers.

I broke the leaky tube down first and then when I was ready to reassemble broke down the non-leaky and put the leaky one back together just as the good one came apart. Everything followed what was in the book, but I like to use an on hand example if I can to make sure nothing goes in backwards.

I torqued everything down just like book said. Used fork oil that was recommended by dealer. Bel Ray 10w Fork oil, not honda brand.

There was some pitting on both for tubes, used a buffing wheel on the dremel to try to smooth out any roughness, but went easy and didn't use any compound for fear of abrading surface to much.

Only thing I can see going wrong is possibly putting seal in upside down, I took time to get it right but I was pretty tired at that point. Other than that there isn't anything else to get backwards, and no other seals other than the dust seal.

Re: Replace fork seals

I tried Bel Ray 10wt once and found it way too harsh. Bel Ray 10 wt is thicker than Honda's SS8 which is what Honda recommends in the service manual and installs from the factory. Why would the dealer recommend that over OEM unless he didn't have SS8 on the shelf? I know that I have had to order it before as many other Hondas use SS7 (?) 5 wt oil and they had plenty of that but no 10 wt for the ST1300.

Bummer about the leaks. That is a hard one to understand leaks at 24K on one or both sides.

Re: Replace fork seals

Try the old trick with using a piece of 35 mm film negative or even a playing card. You want something thin that you slide down alongside the tube past the seal and possibly clear any debris or reset the lip of the seal

When you slid the new seals on did you wrap the top of the tubes with electrical tape or something else to protect the inner surface area - you may have nicked the seals if you didn't